May 26, 2021

CHANGE YOUR INCOME FOREVER | WHAT IF YOU COULD SPEND AN HOUR WITH A MIND BLOWING SALES MENTOR?!?

Benjamin Dennehy | UK's MOST HATED SALES TRAINER


3:20 Benjamin is from New Zealand, qualified as a lawyer and a barrister in England. Right?
4:47 Benjamin gets into the recruiting business and set a company record...

6:41 Train others?
7:13 "I realized is that all the sales problems were my own fault."
8:28 Where did the most hated trainer idea come from?

10:32 Not a bad idea to have your wife onboard (and give her proper credit!)
11:27 best motivator
12:32 what were you taught as a child that could prevent you from being any good at selling.

16:44 What is the average salesman thinking when he is making a cold call?
17:46 you don't have to listen to your mom and dad anymore. Stop taking mom to work, leave her at home!
17:54 "I'll be up front. This is a sales call. So you can either hang up now or let me have 30 seconds. What do you want to do?"
20:36 #Cardone vs. #Belfort ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WynqwgqtzE )
20:44 "I think all the online digital stuff is just a nice way of missing they don't have good sales people."
26:20 Salespeople talk themselves out of more deals.

29:21 Can a customer buy "too soon"?
32:06 "How much is this gonna cost me?"... "You know, I don't often get asked that question so early in the process, happy to answer that. But before I do, can I ask you one quick question? Is price going to be the only factor that you're considering?"

34:21 "...we're selling everything at half value today. I'm going to show you the product, let me show it to you. First, it's gonna take me about 20 minutes to go around the whole thing. Then when I'm done. I'm gonna show you the price on it. If you didn't think it was gonna be twice as much. I'll show it to you again."
37:41 "I don't take a pen to a sales meeting. And I have to borrow one. And I look like I act like I'm embarrassed."
43:27 Better to be professional or...?

50:45 "I'm a chameleon. I when I get in front of a prospect, I give them the personality they need to feel comfortable"
52:34 We take the glory when we win. When we lose, it's not our fault. Hmm.
55:31 Looking back on a lost deal
58:30 90% of people in sales are there by default
59:15 "...nobody knows about? Me? I suppose a lot of people would know this. I am. I'm a mini theologian."
1:00:53 "I spent so much time of my life talking to people, I'm in front of audiences, I'm delivering seminars, I'm doing training sessions, I'm recording videos, I'm always once that camera shuts off, I'm an incredibly reserved, quiet, sit at home because I just get sick of people."

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:00  
What I realized is that all the sales problems were my own fault. Money is the outcome of doing something. Well,

Jeff Sterns  0:06  
this is a sales call, and you probably want to hang up on me. I've stolen that. And it works.

Unknown Speaker  0:11  
So if you say to somebody, you know, would you like extra fries with that? Or do you want to go live? Yeah, all right, go on it. I was gonna do it anyway. But I just wanted someone else to take the guilt off. Or

Jeff Sterns  0:20  
Benjamin, I actually think that that's the number one problem with sales people is they there's an opportunity in front of them and they get rid of it.

Unknown Speaker  0:28  
I don't need you to like me, I need you to trust me. If you want to be treated differently in the sale, you have to act differently. And most salespeople act the same way. They show up, they throw up and they hope that they'll take all the glory when they weren't. But when they lose, it wasn't their fault. I'm a mini theologian. I love theology.

Unknown Speaker  0:49  
Jeff Sterns connected through Cause if they're bigwigs, we'll have him on the show. And yes, we'll talk about cars and everything else. Here he is now, Jeff Sterns,

Jeff Sterns  1:07  
Jeff Sterns connected through cars with the most hated sales trainer in the UK, Benjamin. Now I gotta tell you who Benjamin is, and you're thinking, what would the most hated sales trainer in the UK have to do with Jeff Sterns connected through cars? Well, for those who have gotten to know me, either personally or through my shows, you know that I have this extensive car business background, which is really sales oriented, and a lot of the people that we've had on entrepreneurial or whatever, it all starts with sales. What Benjamin, Benjamin and I were just talking about before we hit the record button was, you could even have the cure for cancer. But if you can't get through to someone, or get the first doctor to try it, it wouldn't matter. I've been watching Benjamin's YouTube channel and your channel. Benjamin is UK his most hated sales trainer. My Right, yeah. Okay. So I wanted to get you all plugged in as much as possible right in the beginning. Because once we get past my typical 22 to 28, second, viewer time length, sticking with us, I want to make sure I want to turn it over to you. here in a minute, I want you to tell us all the ways to get ahold of it right up front. And I wouldn't mind a little origin from you because I'm enamored by what you do doing live sales calls on your YouTube channel. I've just I'm not so real.

Unknown Speaker  2:33  
Right? So folks, if you want to get a hold of me, the place that I hang out most is LinkedIn. So if you just put in LinkedIn UK most hated sales trying to find me also my youtube channel UK his most hated sales trainer ironically, my website UK most hated sales trainer.com and if you need to email me ironically, it's my name Benjamin at UK his most hated sales trainer.com so I'm in

Jeff Sterns  2:58  
the in the show notes, Benjamin, I'll have it in there. So you guys can look below when you're subscribing and liking because of Benjamin finally. So Benjamin give us a little origin. It's so darn interesting. You do these YouTube videos about you cold calling into businesses and of course, calling out sales people on their normal excuses, but I am dying to know your background.

Unknown Speaker  3:20  
Right? So So originally, I'm from New Zealand and I'm pretending lisman and I qualified as a lawyer as an attorney, barrister under the British system, I qualified as a barrister. I was going to spend my life defending criminals that was the plan. But I wanted to do some travel before I grew up. So I come to England, which is where 81 from the colonies normally first port of call as you go to England, you know, you got to the motherland. So arrived in England, started working in bars and pubs back in the day. So this is like the year $2,000 arrived just on the turn of the century. So would work in pubs. And you get free board, free food, free drinks, and you get paid. I think you save up money and you go traveling, and then you'd come back. And so I love that lifestyle. I did that for several years. Then I decided Time to go home time to grow up. Go back to New Zealand course after doing experiencing the world, New Zealand, I suppose New Zealand a lot like Wichita, Kansas, just an island. I thought, well, I'll go to England. So I returned to England, I thought, well, I'll just become a lawyer here. It doesn't quite work like that. You can't just start if they want to be because I hadn't done five years post qualifying experience. They wanted me to do another two years of training, qualify for their bar. And I thought I don't want to do that. I can jump on a plane and practice back home. So I did what anyone else who needs a job or has no skills. What do they do? They go to sales. Yeah. That's how we end up in sales. Nobody wants this for themselves. Yeah, it's the default position when you've tried everything else, get a job in sales. So I started in recruitment I set a company record, I was there for six months, and I didn't recruit a single person. I was absolutely useless at it. I cuz I didn't know how to sell. I didn't know it was a sales. But one thing I had I had a unique skill, I was very good at getting appointments on the phone. And in fact, I was so bad I was given a weeks notice and see Benjamin, you've got a week's notice if you don't do anything, you're not going to be in the week after next. So the week out that week, I went back, and I just hit the phones as hard as I could. And I got a lot of appointments. And so my manager delayed stalking me. He said, I'll tell you what, Pedro, just do more of what you did this week. So I did it again. And I've got a lot more meetings. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna give you a new job. You're no good at recruitment, but you are good at lead development in business. So we want you just solely hitting the phones and setting appointments for real recruiters to go on. And it seems easy. So that's what I did. So that's how I got into telephone prospecting. Then ironically, I got poached by another company, can you believe it? And this company specialized in setting up appointments for advertising agencies in the City of London, I didn't know anything about advertising or marketing. But I figured how hard could it be? And again, I did very well at that. And so I decided to go out on my own, why worked for a company working on various accounts when I could find my own advertising agencies and sell on my service. So that's what I did. And I double my income overnight. And I got to pick who I work with. So for eight years, all I would do would be telephone calls, and set up appointments with virtually every brand you've probably consumed in a supermarket. And England, and one of the CEOs of one of these agencies said you're very good. Why are you good? I said honestly, he goes, he said, No.

Unknown Speaker  6:41  
And he goes, I'll tell you what, if you could figure out why you're good at what you do. He goes, I think you'd make a lot of money because you could show other people how to do it. Like that. That's what started the journey on maybe I should figure out why I'm good at what I do. And so I started looking at read lots of books on sales. And like I said, I don't knock any sales book, you're all these different methodologies, you got spin, you've got Sandler, you got Zig Ziglar, you got the challenger sale, what I realized is, is that it's a psychology that underpins everything. And I was introduced to psychology and transactional analysis and things like that, what I realized is that all the sales problems were my own fault. And when I started realizing I had to change, it wasn't prospects, it had to change. And I started realizing that selling was a lot like law, it was a system, it was a process. If I did the same thing over and over again, really, really well. I'd be continually successful. And then I figured out why struggling work. I didn't know why. But then our ta helped me understand it. So the psychology helped me understand why what I was doing intuitively worked. And then when you know why something works, you can do it deliberately and consciously. That's what I started doing. And I started getting better and better and better and better at doing the same stuff over and over again, never deviating if I screwed up, try and figure out what I did wrong and fix it. Realizing that any pressure I felt was all self imposed. prospects can't make you feel pressure. Because you're not even in the room with us how Why do I feel pressure, so it's my fault. So they've said or done something that's triggered something inside of me if I could stop that going off, always be in control. And I spent years doing it. And then people started paying me to teach them how to do what I do. And I spent some time with a really great sales trainer who taught me a lot of stuff. And it's just I've got better and better but I don't change. It's like for production line. Nothing changes in my world. I

Jeff Sterns  8:27  
got to ask Where did the most hated trainer idea come?

Unknown Speaker  8:31  
Ah, well, I have LinkedIn and people's egos to thank for that. So I met a guy who was known as a UK his number one motivational speaker and I said how they how did you become that he goes, replaced 26 of my book, which he gave me so I don't have to buy. He gave me his book. And I'm waiting 26 How did I become the number one most of it? Because I've made it up? Okay. And what he said is and then it's truly what it is. It's it's a if you say something enough people will believe it. So all you got to do is Mohamad, that if somebody said to you, I am the greatest that who would you think of and Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Ali. But you know, technically he wasn't he just said it over and over again that now anyone that comes along and says it, it's No you're not. It's Mohammed Ali. So he said, find a space and create it. So I went on LinkedIn. And I looked at other sales gurus. And this is what I noticed. They all call themselves leaders, gurus, number one, the best leader, performer, and so everyone wants to be loved. Look at me, look how great I am okay, and I hope no one wants to be hated. Which means is no one in this space, which means if I plant my flag, I'll own it. And that's where the UK is most hated. Because no one wants to be hated. Now all I got to do was say that over and over again. Which was weird to do when you first started with standing up in front of a roomful of people sitting out in the business. Hi, my name is Benjamin. I'm the UK most hated sales trainer, but it resonated with people and I kept pushing it and it allows me to be my personality to be particularly blunt and direct, which is what self people need. And so that's how it came about it was to not be your sound like all the other LinkedIn experts.

Jeff Sterns  10:11  
So Benjamin, whether it's someone famous or someone close to you, could you name three people that were inspirational to you that you draw back on?

Unknown Speaker  10:22  
Yeah, so Marcus Kalki, he's a sales trainer. He's got his own business now. We're still good friends. So he mentored and got, so he was bigger. I have to say this, it always sounds cheesy and cliche, but I gotta say, my wife, because she supported me. The number of times I wanted to, you know, quit doing what I was doing, because I couldn't make it work is it changing one self was hardest. And if you don't have a supportive wife, and you got a baby, and you quit your job, and you say, I'm just gonna do this. So she's been important, who's the third person?

Jeff Sterns  10:56  
I don't think that's cheesy at all, for you to give the credit to your wife. I think more people need to do that. Because if you don't have that support at home, it's really hard to go out and do what you need to do it

Unknown Speaker  11:04  
is. And I've met so many people that have said, I want to be able to do what you do. I want to set up a business and I go, Why don't want to make money. I go, what if money is your motivation? This is bad, because you're going to be poor for the next three to five years. So let's start you're going to have a passion that you know, if you get good at it, the money will come. And Does your wife support you? Now she thinks it's a stupid idea. And I wouldn't do it. Because if I get a wife,

Jeff Sterns  11:27  
you'd mentioned that, you know, if money is the motivator, that could be dangerous, because you'll be poor for a while. On another show. I had a recorded conversation with Malcolm Bricklin. Malcolm Bricklin, the father, Subaru in North America, made his first million take home pay in the bank, when he was 1819 years old, around the year 1960. And what he said on the show was that he learned that money was not the motivator, it has to be passion, because when he got that money, he got paralyzed. All he worried about is not taking away from or damaging the million that he had, he didn't want to touch it at all never mattered before because he never had it. So he was a little bit paralyzed, he was contracted, he wasn't making any moves. And then he finally decided to put the kids already to put the money in his kids names in trust, so that he couldn't mess it up. And then went out and started working again, the money messed him up finding the next thing that he was crazy about is what got him going.

Unknown Speaker  12:32  
Yeah, and I think that's it, um, money is the outcome of doing something well. And I think most successful people know that if you're a good lawyer, you make a lot of money. But your primary goal is to be a good lawyer, if you're a good surgeon, you make a lot of a good golfer you make a lot of the money is secondary, it just comes. But if you're already focused on the outcome, which is I want to make a lot of money, you probably won't get good at what you do. So I'd say there's an exception to every rule, obviously. But now I believe you need a passion. It's something you're gonna love doing. And I loved doing what I did. So yeah, and so the third one, I'm gonna say something controversial, because he helped me with my brand. It's your ex President, Mr. Trump. It was his red hat. It was it was it was all over. I saw that I thought Nick amnet. Yeah, I was like they said these that saying isn't that genius creates but brilliant steals. Yeah. And I'm a true believer in that, you know, something's got a good idea that you Nick it and you use it. Now, everything I teach, I've stolen, I haven't made any of the stuff up. I'm upfront about that. It's all stolen. But I just got good at doing stuff that people seem to get good at doing rather than read it and stick it on my bookshelf. So everyone can think I'm smart.

Jeff Sterns  13:39  
You are talking about the stuff that's in your head, as a salesperson, you know, all the the obstacles are in your head. Can you debunk? Or can you bust a myth?

Unknown Speaker  13:49  
Right? So yeah, this is this is this is one of my favorite things. So we are the product of a program of the Romans used to have a saying, Give me a boy until the age of seven, and I will show you the man. So they knew before modern psychiatry and all our medicine, they knew that the first seven years were the most formative in the development of a child. Yeah. And so that that's until it's, it's true, because he now you look back at what were you taught as a child that could prevent you from being any good at selling. And we were a lot of roles. You were two there are three in particular that stand out that you were taught as a child that no one ever told you don't apply as a grown up. So you, you have what psychologists call scripted behaviors, and it's a programming. One of the rules we were all taught was never talk to strangers.

Jeff Sterns  14:34  
Right? The opposite of cold. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  14:36  
no, that's a great rule. It's a great rule for a child but no one when I ask anyone, did your mom or dad ever tell you that rule doesn't apply when you're a grown up? And everyone goes no. Right? So it's there. It's still there. It's still a rule. Then you get the other room. What do we all talk? It's rude to interrupt. So now you have room to enter again. Did anyone tell you as a grown up, you can interrupt anybody you want? No. Right? That's another rule. You've gotten it. Then the final one is you a program that you had to answer questions your entire life growing up, your mum and dad be pointing at pictures in a book. What's that? What's that? What's this? What's that? If you got it, right, you got praise, very important to a developing brain, you need the praise the smile, so you feel good about yourself, you feel loved, you feel accepted. If you've got it wrong, depending on childhood, you know, it could be anywhere from locked into the basement through to what most of us are hopefully got was no, no, try again. So you try again. And you keep going until you got it right when you got it right. You got praise again. So your brain was programmed that he will always answer a question and be it should always trying to get the right answer. Again, no one told you that that doesn't apply as a grown up. No one said, you know, God's having questions as an option. You didn't have that right. As a child, it was an absolute mandated behavior. So now fast forward to 25 years of age, you get a new job sales job, they give you a list of CEOs who you've never spoken to before. You know, they're busy because they're busy guys CEO. Yeah. And instead they say phone them. And as you pick up that phone, or these tapes start playing, your mom starts screaming at you. What are you gonna say to women you get through? He's a stranger. He's not gonna want to be interrupted. How are you gonna want to miss questions? Do you know he's gonna know a lot? So they're self sabotaging even before the guy answers, and then when the guy answers they act all startled. Oh, hi, sorry to disturb you. My name is Benjamin from a How are you today? They all say the same thing. Fine. No one ever sees art or for my wife.

Jeff Sterns  16:32  
And they're thinking, what do you hear?

Unknown Speaker  16:34  
It's insincere. But they just think because it's a reaction. I don't know what to do. Somebody I just like a little bit of time to introduce a guy I'm not interested by the sample. No wonder didn't work. You know what the average salesman's thinking when the phone is dialing. You know, what's going through the average salesman's head as the phone is dialing. They're thinking about some kind of abuse or pain about to happen, or rejection. I used to think he please don't answer please don't answer.

Jeff Sterns  16:58  
Please, please don't answer. Okay. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  17:00  
And they wouldn't I do you think they want to be seen to be doing the behavior, but they don't want to actually do it? Yeah. And then I have a bad call, they have to spend five minutes putting that into the CRM system to buy them some room. And then they got to figure out the next. So before, there's about six minutes in between each call now. And then after about 40 minutes, and five God calls. You've done nothing. But it's these wrongs, you can't interrupt, it's rude to interrupt, you better have an answer to their question. And it's a stranger. And then the authority, you hear your mum say, what are you going to say to him, when you get through, you're an account executive, this guy runs a successful business. So this is all the head trash that's going on. It's getting people to realize you don't have to listen to your mum and dad anymore. Stop taking mum to work, leave her at home.

Jeff Sterns  17:54  
You and one of your videos, instead of saying, could I just have five minutes to tell you what I have? or half a minute or whatever? You said, Listen, this is a sales call, and you probably want to hang up on me. I've stolen that and it works. So if anyone in the audience because it's refreshing, I think or you know what, I'm not even gonna call it refreshing if we're gonna get down to the science. I think it's a pattern interrupt. You said that there's, yep, there's a reflex. When can I help you in a store? Can I help you just look in? How are you fine, but nothing sincere. I don't think there's a reflex answer. Listen, this, I want to this is a quick sales call. And you're probably gonna want to hang up on me. There's nothing inside of them ready to deal with that?

Unknown Speaker  18:40  
will say yeah, so there is a psychology behind it. And so people try and imitate it, but they get the wording wrong. It's all quite specific. So you know, I said, I'll be up front. This is a sales call. So you can either hang up now or let me have 30 seconds. What do you want to do? Now? I asked that question. First, I asked a question. Because I know that guy's been programmed the same way everyone else was he has to answer his moments in his face, and you've been around to the man. So he answers. I also I deliberately, and this is why it works on CEOs and decision makers. Well, yeah. Because Well, it is what the guys at the top hate being what do they hate the most? They hate being told what to do. So I deliberately tell them what to do. And the rebellious child reacts Gateley and says, No, we're not gonna hang up. What's it about? So I've changed the call from being a cold call to a permission based call. So the psychology is that so Hannah, we sent talk to me. And it works 95% of the time, every now and then someone doesn't like it. But the delivery if you deliver it like a wimp Yeah, sorry to disturb a lobby up front. This is a this is a sales call. would you would you would you like to hang up? Yes. So if you don't deliver it, well, it won't work. And if you're talking To a decision maker, you got to mirror them, you got to sound like them short, sharp clip to the point, assertive but not rude, and they react to it. It sounds like me, I like the cut of his jib. And also disarming honesty is the fastest way to bond with a stranger. And that is disarmingly honest, as I'll be upfront, it is a sales call. So do I hang out now? Or let me have 30 seconds? What do you want to do? Benjamin? That's

Jeff Sterns  20:20  
awesome. I've always said that. It's who you are, when you're saying it. It's like the right person can almost deliver any script that almost doesn't matter and the right script, if you're not who you need to be, when you're delivering it, it's not going to work. So are you aware of this either real or made up little feud between the Wolf of Wall Street and Grant Cardone?

Unknown Speaker  20:44  
I am aware of it. There's actually a YouTube channel of me critiquing Balfour and Cardona in an interview with another chap called might want to and we critique these two guys and

Jeff Sterns  20:54  
then perfect, I'll have to look at that and I'll put that in the show notes. We will watch but who did you have on coming out on top of that?

Unknown Speaker  21:04  
kado last because I think he just he says arguments never stacked up. And he's basically like a machine just do this over and over. And yeah, anybody who does anything enough you will make so it's not hard to get someone to give you money. If you fire it up a badger a lot of people eventually someone will give in but it's how do you repeat that and make it professional? You can't so he kept falling and as he gets to this bit reset you know, I got fish I got fishing as it were for the garden one fish.

Jeff Sterns  21:35  
Right? Well, that's that's why you need 8000 products or something. Right? Okay.

Unknown Speaker  21:39  
I don't need fish. You can't sell some fish. It doesn't want fish or need fish or disasters. Right?

Jeff Sterns  21:45  
And do you believe that no interest is a level of interest

Unknown Speaker  21:49  
Ah, now you've got to qualify is no interest a smokescreen objection to get rid of you? Or is it real? So yeah, I tend to some objections are red lights, and they can't be moved. Yes, or some things aren't objections in statements of fact, like if somebody said, we don't have sales people now you must do no, we don't we I honestly, bagent we don't we don't have any sales people. We don't do any selling function. Unless I can prove them as a lie. That could be a state and I've had a company so it turned out he was right. He didn't have any sales guys. It was not his business got money coming in. They didn't have to sell it. It was like a commodity. There was no selling involved in this particular type of product. He just took orders like McDonald's doesn't have sales people, right? Yeah, right. There's no salespeople in McDonald's, you go into place an order, you're not in there to make a decision on whether or not you want to buy that to be made.

Jeff Sterns  22:33  
I think the person at McDonald's when they're asking to offer a hot apple pie with that, and made have some bonus on that you don't think one person's delivering that better and getting more hot apple pies. So

Unknown Speaker  22:46  
always possible, some guy can make it more appealing the upsell sort of thing. But they're not selling them something they probably wouldn't have bought anyway had they not been prompted. It's like the confectionery at the aisle. As you go at the supermarket, it's deliberately put there it's known as an invitation to treat and they know that people can't resist so if you say to somebody, you know, would you like extra fries without? Or do you want to go lighter? Yeah. All right, go on it. I was gonna do it anyway. But I just wanted someone else to take the guilt off me.

Jeff Sterns  23:14  
Well, sales is so important. And it's funny because these days, in the car business, there's a lot of conversation about and I'm, by the way, I'm, you know, my job is I'm VP of sales for car chat 24. And a couple other verticals are v chat, etc. But I'm talking to car dealers. And with COVID. In the last year, something called Digital retailing has become a big thing and a big word. And this is where the customer could do everything from A to Z online, maybe have the car delivered to a maybe only show up to get the car, this sort of thing. The idea is, is that the customer wants to be in control. I actually disagree with that. I don't think the customer really wants to be in control, I think of going a little bit of a higher step above McDonald's in the restaurant business. I think that if you're at a decent restaurant where you want a decent experience, and the more expensive it is, I would say the more that the rule that you should be in control would apply. So let's say it's $100 a person before drinking, I say the customer doesn't want to be in control. I say that they want to run into somebody that can lead them like will have the fish and you want a good waiter is going to be like Ah, I don't know about today. You want somebody to guide you. And I mean, you might think you want to be in control through all these steps in electronic step. But it really does take somebody to guide and lead and I even think confront a little What do you think?

Unknown Speaker  24:38  
No, I completely agree. I think all the online digital stuff is just a nice way of missing they don't have good sales people. They only had order takers anyway, so we can automate it. Then let's automate. So you always have some people some people have decided to buy a car and they're gonna leave with a car and you put the right salesman in front you could put a monkey in roller skates strategically shaved and they close That deal. Yeah. So x. Yeah, that's not hard. Yeah. But yes, you are quite right. The experiences as most prospects thinks they know what their problem is, but they don't. It's like going to a doctor. Most people go on Google now and they think they know more than the doctor. Well, you don't you think you do because Dr. Google has given you all the info, but you still don't know. Because you don't know the questions to ask yourself. But I do. Because I've been years and you don't know these questions. You don't know that. If you do this, that that could happen. And then the chain reaction is this. You don't know that. So you don't know having the white Beaujolais with the monkfish actually will make it taste blitter. You don't know that you think Wow. So the concierge says. So I would recommend that you go more with a version low because there are no good. Okay. Well, I'll take your advice is slightly more expensive, sir. But it will make the experience better. Yeah. So you are right. Our job is to challenge the prospect. Unless you've got one, as I say, like the McDonald's person. I know what I want. I want McDonald's, I want to feel my sensation. I'm going to place an order. In fact, that's the only time a salesman can really screw up because they can actually turn you off. You can be such a dick. They walk out.

Jeff Sterns  26:12  
Well, Benjamin, I actually think that that's the number one problem with salespeople is they there's an opportunity in front of them, and they get rid of it.

Unknown Speaker  26:20  
They talk themselves out of more deals. And they talk and

Jeff Sterns  26:22  
yeah, I think It usually starts with Hello. And you know, what I love about you? And I mean, look, audience, I want you to know that. I mean, I invited Benjamin on here because I'm like his honest to god fan. I mean, if you're in sales, if you're interested in sales, if you're not in sales, but you Oh, you're just curious about the subject, like what goes on on the other side. The guy's got it down. And he's very, very real. And eventually we'll get into what the hell is it with the red suspender. But I noticed and maybe it's only because of what I've watched, I haven't gone through your whole video, I noticed a lot of cold call opening which has helped me a lot. I mean, let me just say it's helped me a lot in calling into businesses to sell my software and consulting. But when it comes to closing it, you know when I'm talking when I'm listening to Grant Cardone his volume of calls, volume of calls volume of calls, just get in front of someone volume, volume, volume, and then when I'm listening to Belfort, I'm hearing no one, you're wasting your time or their time and no one to walk in, you know, being a little more discerning what I found, when I sold exotic cars for 10 years, you know, the rolls, the Bentley, the Lotus, the odd used Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever. And now even in the software business, it's the same. When I was in the exotic car business, we ended up number one certified Pre Owned in the United States. Number one, Bentley Continental order list the united states that the largest dealer in the country, but got close, which was interesting because we are in a city, Clearwater, Florida where nobody drove one. So it wasn't like Lauderdale, Palm Beach, or Dallas, Houston or Beverly Hills, or you know, in New York, nothing like that. So I was proud of it. But what we did, three of us is we made an average of legitimately we measured it 100 outbound calls a day, leaving messages for people that we met, however, we would meet them at a charity fundraiser, or they were an inbound call from an exotic car advertising source. Or we met them through a club or used our service department, however, we met them referred, and then we put them on a program of calling them every I forget the interval now every two or I think it was two months. And then when we got too many to call, we made it every three months so that we can manage it, we got it down to by the way that the average nurture on those was 18 months. But at the end of five or six years, we measured from meeting somebody to actually close them the average to getting them into a car, the average was 18 months. And that meant for every athlete, they got a sign on bonus that came in and bought a car same moment, we had somebody else that we talked to for three years, but I called it a marketing job. We're selling a car got in the way. Now here in the chat lead. Of course, I'm trying to sell someone sooner than a year and a half. Although I've certainly I've been here nine years. I've certainly written people after three, four or five years or wrote them for the second or third time, you know when they've left and come back over nine years. But here's some Tell me how you feel about this. What I found is, is that my rhythm gets screwed up if they want to start talking about buying and they want to start talking about money on one of the very first phone calls. Because I find that if I can get some messages into them or some conversations into them. Prior to that, that my credibility is higher my trust factor is higher and my difficulty in negotiating is less because of who I am to them by the time we get to money when it's early. I find that it's just a money struggle because I'm nobody to them yet. I don't have I didn't put in the work. So I'm not hoping They don't answer. Like you said like don't answer don't answer. I'm kind of hoping they don't buy it unless they just want to just take it in not make it difficult. But that's rare. But I'm, I'm a little bit don't answer, not out of fear. But out of I want to get three or four more calls or conversations in before it comes down to money. What do you think about that?

Unknown Speaker  30:21  
Well, I I believe in challenging so I bought my view of selling is, there is more reasons for someone not to buy from me than there is to buy from me, which means I am going to figure out why they can't buy with me and deal with it straightaway. So. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing is the difference, which I pointed out this difference in a prospecting call on a sales call a prospecting call is to get someone into the sales funnel. Selling is what you do once you're in front of you. So if you ask the average salesman, what is the purpose of a prospecting call? You get answers like or to get a meeting, to get a sale, to get an appointment, to find pain, to find need to educate, to whatever I got no, no, no, all of those are wrong. Because those are all outcomes. All of those are what you call a potential outcome. What is the purpose? And this is where everyone gets confused. You see, what if you ask the lawyer, what is the purpose of a trial? They wouldn't say, to get a quarter to get a conviction to get a one? No, no, no, no, those are outcomes of a trial. What's the purpose of the PA? And then they give you this philosophical, or the purpose of a trial, blah, blah, blah. So what is the purpose of a prospect good, simple. People buy emotionally and justify intellectually. So the purpose of a sales call is to get a human being who's sitting at their desk, or wherever have they is Larry feeling intellectual? and make them feel a little bit emotional about whatever it is that I fix? Well put, so that is the purpose. That is all I'm here to do. I'm not there to sell anything. I want this guy to say, Hmm, maybe you do have something, Benjamin, and perhaps we should explore it further. That's a job done, I'll get the appointment, and then I'll sell. Now if I'm at a sale and price comes up straightaway. early on. And again, it all depends who you're talking to. But let's say it's the managing director or president or CEO, and he says subagent before we start How much is this gonna cost me? I give him a stroke? I know, that's a good question. You know, I don't often get asked that question. So early on in the process, happy to answer that. But before I do, can I ask you one quick question? Yeah. Is price going to be the only factor that you're considering? So if I can ask the question, the rule is never answer it, flick it back. It's not my problem to deal with. This is his so I'm going to flick it back. When you flick it back to them. They say two things. They either say yes. Or they say not No, not not a not an entirely. And if I say yes, I go in that case. Well, I'm gonna be upfront, I'm going to cost more than you want to invest. So I set them up Waibel, have you got to figure in your head of what you want to spend? Yeah, again, 20%. I was waiting for that. Yeah, that's probably what you're gonna have to invest? Is that figure too high? Ah, so I got, and I deal with it like that. I happy to talk about price now. But I'm going to be honest, it's expensive. And before we worry about price, I haven't even decided if you could be my next client. Because in order for you to be my next client, you need to convince me that the size of your problem is outweighed by the fees, I'm going to charge you. That's awesome. And that's it. I'm not going to sell you something if my fees are bigger than the size of your problem. Yeah. So somebody sees you, how much is it for this car? I know, that's a fair question. You know, normally when somebody asked me that, it means you're on a pretty tight budget. Is that the case here? Ah, well, we'll ballpark it for me. How much do you have to spend just roughly and figures now that lie? Yeah.

Jeff Sterns  33:37  
Right. Of course. I won't hold you to it. Right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  33:39  
Yeah. And then they'll give you a ballpark. Okay. So we'll only look at cars valued under $8,000. In, shall we? Yeah. Can I ask you a question? What if you see a car that takes all your boxes, but comes in at nine and a half an hour? I I don't know what to do. You got to say no, right? can't bind? Well, no, not necessarily. What do you mean? Well, I could maybe you fight or fight or whatever they say. They say what the moment you threatened to take something away from someone, I started to find an excuse why they could figure out a way of getting there. And if they can't do that, it means they literally only have 8000 bucks. By the way I would because I know what I've got to work with here.

Jeff Sterns  34:17  
Yeah, that is so interesting. My favorite answer to how much is that car is we're selling everything at half value today. What do you mean? I'm going to show you the car, let me show it to you. First, it's gonna take me about 20 minutes to go around the whole thing. Then when I'm done. I'm gonna show you the price on it. If he didn't think it was gonna be twice as much. I'll show it to you again. I like it. That's cool. But I like how you open up with I'm gonna be upfront with you. I noticed that a lot of your lines. I'm gonna be upfront with you.

Unknown Speaker  34:47  
Yeah, are you and I don't say let me be honest, because it gives the impression that you're No, that's bullshit. So I hate the phrase. Let me be honest. Yeah. So I know it's I'll be up front. Yep. So one of the things I teach people is I blow up bombs. And a bomb is something that I know in my world is likely to ruin my deal. So rather than wait for it to happen at the end, I destroyed at the beginning, I can look before we start the meeting. Should I tell you the three reasons you're going to tell the man today? And everyone can't say no, don't they all, particularly in the CEOs and presidents I don't I got one are bloody expensive. If you're going to do this, you got to be looking at investing anywhere between 50 to 100,000 pounds. So that's the first thing the money to time. Do you know how long it's gonna take to get good at what I teach. This isn't a two day dog and pony show, we're going to be looking at a six to 12 month relationship of me coming in at least couple of days a month with yourselves guys. So that's a big commitment. And the third one is this. A lot of you guys are going to hate it and probably quit. So let me ask you a question. Let's pretend we decide we could and should work together. Are any of those going to be your reason? We can't even if you want to. And now we have a fight. And they argue with me while I'm wrong.

Jeff Sterns  36:00  
That is honestly beautiful. That

Unknown Speaker  36:03  
and it takes courage to do that. Because both feet No, no. What if they say no? Good. I want to leave because it we're never gonna buy anyway. You've been you've got to talk them around. Not if it's a red light. If he doesn't have that money and can't find it. It's not a bloody Game Show. You know it's over.

Jeff Sterns  36:19  
Is there anyone that you want? That you don't or you won't work with?

Unknown Speaker  36:23  
Yeah, lawyers and accountants. Why? Because first I'll never acknowledge they're in sales. They have a pathological you know, they've hit their professional people. Yeah. In fact, it used to be so about a barrister of England traditionally has it with a gown and on the back could be a pocket. And the the accused in the 19th and 18th century would have to stick the money in that little bag because they weren't allowed to touch it. Yeah, it's just tradition. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Sterns  36:49  
So for us Americans, for us Americans, a barrister, a judge, and now an attorney. It's an attorney or an attorney. Forgive me, I didn't even know. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  36:56  
so the guy that represents so when England solicitors do all the backend stuff, the paperwork that the wills the probate, but the barrister can represent you in court. Not all lawyers in England can stand in a court and defend you. It's not like America where you can, it's different. So anyway, um, the reason why is they won't admit they're in sales. The other one is, is they believe they have to be professional all the time. And one of the things I teach people is, the key to being a good salesman is not actually being a salesman. So I deliberately struggle on purpose. Because I know that when I struggle, it forces the other person to rescue me. And when they rescue me, their mom gives them a stroke, he says, You're a nice kid, and he feels good about himself. So the more people feel good about themselves, when they're around me, they start to lower their defenses. So I deliberately struggle, I don't take a pen to a sales meeting. And I have to borrow one. And I look like I act like I'm embarrassed. It's all part of the making them comfortable. So lawyers, and accountants can't act like that, because they feel they've got to behave a certain way the whole time. But actually, you'll find the best lawyers are the ones that people at first thing, I'm not really too sure if he knows what he's doing. But actually, he's really good, because they don't feel they need to impress you, someone who's very good at what they do doesn't feel the need to impress, I don't need you to like me, I need you to trust me. And they're two different things for you to trust me, I'm gonna have to ask you uncomfortable questions. And to do that you need to feel comfortable. So I've got to make you comfortable, ergo, oh, at least professional.

Jeff Sterns  38:24  
So what you're really saying is in sales, if you acknowledge and own that you're in sales, you can do human, you can do human. Those two hung up on up on professionalism. And I'm not, I'm not implying that somebody shouldn't be professional. But it can take away a little bit of the human factor.

Unknown Speaker  38:46  
It does want to think of it this way. When you're at school, unless it was you did anybody like the smartest kid in class? No. Yeah. Why do salespeople try and be the smartest person in the room?

Jeff Sterns  38:57  
to show off I'm assuming

Unknown Speaker  38:59  
Exactly. And it doesn't work. It alienates people. So by by by allowing people to feel comfortable around me, they lower their defense walls, because naturally, they don't trust me because I'm a salesman. The greatest honor I know is this whenever I go out to a party, or I'm at some social event, yeah, I got the long hair. I never dress up fancy. And I'll be talking away with somebody individually that they finally get around to saying so what do you do for a living because I never asked me I go What do you think I do? So I flick it back. Yeah. And they look at me and they go are you like a musician or something? No. What do you think they Well, you know, you got the long No, no, no, not a musician. What else do you think I could be? I get well I've enjoyed it. You're quite good at listening you some sort of Are you a counselor or something? No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, I'm What are you? Like if I told you have a corporate sales trainer? What would you say? Like I know, like a Why? They go well, you're not an asshole.

Jeff Sterns  39:54  
So speaking of the long hair, and the whatever, what's what's the red suspenders They hold my trousers up, but when you're not wearing them now, but I see them always, or almost always,

Unknown Speaker  40:08  
it all goes back to the psychology. So when I turn up to an office for the first time, and if someone's never seen any of my videos or know who I am, I get that look. And it's that look that I look for. And it's that look of incredulity. You see the AMD or the CEO, look at me, and I see that lock in. It's like, Who is this idiot? And the moment I get that, look, I know that I'm probably going to win, because they don't feel threatened by a guy and suspenders with long hair, who's forgotten a pen? And the moment that I'm able to do what I do, they forget all about that, because I'm good at asking questions and getting them thinking. And so are the true store. I worked with a some currency traders in the City of London proper Wolf of Wall Street stuff. So I rocked up on the first day, no one had actually met me, per se. And I turned up and I get one to the really flash offices. And I've got my hat on. I've got a jacket on and I'm carrying a box. And the receptionist. I said, Yes, I'd like to speak with so and so the CEO. She goes, have you got a delivery for him? I see. No, no, no, no, no, no, I have an appointment. Because while I let them know you're here, and I sat in reception for ages. I don't want anything. They phoned up. I think they just ignored me. So remember, this girl came down and Okay, excuse me. Are you with ABC company? She goes, Yeah, you couldn't let Brian know that Benjamin's here, could you? And she goes, Oh, you must be the painter. I said no, no, no, tell him it's the expensive sales trainer. And I thought this is it. You walk into these plus offices, and you get confused with the delivery man and the painter would actually you're a highly paid consultant. And that makes me feel good. Because when I stand in front of a roomful of guys suited and booted, and acquit, I get the question. And I get it all the time. I had a 1111 sent to me, Benjamin, I'll be upfront with you. I understand what you're saying and why you reckon we should do and behave like this. He goes, why don't we honestly, we don't sell to people like that. If you did what you do to the sorts of people we sell to? I think they throw you out? I said, No, that's a fair point. So can I ask you a question then said, How did I get here? Your SEO is exactly the type of man you sell to. So how is it that I am here? If what you said is right.

Jeff Sterns  42:24  
So you're talking about victories? Do you ever get shut down? Because you forgot your pen? And how are you going to teach us how to sell if you can't forget that? Remember the number one basic a pen? Let's be honest, come on.

Unknown Speaker  42:37  
No. The pen is probably made me more money than anybody else. Because the number of people that pull me up on at the end of the meeting. I remember one this is a true. So I've been one CEO, we get to the end of the meeting, he gets all right beads. And he goes, I'll tell you off. He goes. I'm in. I want to do this. I believe you can help me and I want to work with you. Because I've got one question. I said, Yeah, what is it two? He goes that thing you did at the beginning of this meeting with your pen? Was that a trick? I scratched my head? I go, What do you mean? See, I never answer I flick it back with a question. What do you mean fpds? To justify what he just said, Well, I he goes, I don't think you forgot to bring a pen. I think you did that on deliberate. I think that's some sort of technique that you're using on me. Now we're in a boardroom with other people. And over someone at this lady on the board said, why would you forget to bring a pin? And he goes, I don't know. But I know he's done it for a reason. And she goes, Well, I can't see why anyone would do it. It's unprofessional. And then I turned to her and I said, Can I ask you a question? Who taught you you have to be a professional when selling? She goes, Well, you have to be I said, Who taught you that? and Why? Well, because you're representing the company. You can't turn up and look unprofessional. I said, so if you forgot a Pim, what would you be thinking about at the moment? She goes, Well, I feel embarrassed. I go Ha. So can I ask a question? Why you thinking or feeling about you at a sale? And she goes on before she can answer the CEO snapped his finger. And this is all done. Because the first thing he told me when we spoke on the phone before met him was he needed a mindset change and a sales people. And at that precise moment, he clicked his finger. And he said, mindset, this man has a completely different mindset from all of us. That's what he goes. So was it a move? I said, Well, if I told you it wasn't what would you say? see another question. And he goes, Well, I wouldn't want to call you a liar. I said, in that case, I'll be upfront with you. It is a move. He gets I thought so I just knew it was some sort of trip. I'd like to explain to you why I do I go but I get and this is the truth. I said, I do this all the time. And you know what actually has happened now i get i get i actually genuinely do forget to bring pins now. And it goes because it's a habit. I think Jessica sets even better. hook line and sinker. So if you want to be treated differently in the sale, you have to act differently. And most salespeople act the same way. They show up, they throw up and they hope

Jeff Sterns  45:00  
Well put, well, we're getting a free seminar here. I mean, this is listen, folks, this is an expensive guy.

Unknown Speaker  45:07  
Yes, very. And it's not American dollars. It's the profit pound.

Jeff Sterns  45:11  
It's right. It's real money. It's a real currency. Yeah. But in America, we think that you know, we of course, set the world standard and everything. Now you are working here in Florida.

Unknown Speaker  45:22  
I was in beginning last year in Florida. I'm coming back to America. I've been invited to speak at some events run by insurers funnily enough, in where am I going somewhere in Texas? I can't remember the name but San Antonio, San Antonio, Texas, I'll be the end of September.

Jeff Sterns  45:41  
Yeah, very nice. But I'd like to get back to I'm glad you can travel again. So now when you talk to your customers, or your your prospects, and you say this is going to be very expensive, and this is going to take a long time, we can't do a two hour session, and put a dog and pony show and cure. So now I'm going to ask you a question, though. Is there a quick something that one of our listeners, who's in sales can take with them? Or is that just forget about that?

Unknown Speaker  46:09  
Most salesmen are order takers, they just refuse to acknowledge it. And most sales people, therefore, if they're an order taker, tend to talk themselves out of orders than into them, because it's yours to effectively lose. In theory, if someone's decided they want what you have, and you somehow turn them off of it. That's not very good. So this is what I do. I was in the back of a taxi off to have a meeting with the company CEO. And I was rereading the email that he sent me. And as I was reading it, I got this gut feeling. And my gut said, I think he's, I think he's already decided to work. I don't know why it's just the way this is done. So I had to change my game plan. So I get in front of the CEO. And I said, Can I ask you a question before we started? It's a really weird question. I guess no, no, I asked you. And I said, Are you sure? Because whatever you answer is gonna dictate how I behave for the rest of this meeting, I guess, go for it. And I said, so my question is this, have you already decided you want to work with me? And the purpose of this meeting is to figure out what that would look like? Or do you need to be convinced by the end of this meeting that I'm someone you should invest in? And he looked at me, he goes, it's a it's a good question. I said, I know. I need a good answer. And then he being powerplay, he turned to me and he did the typical power move. He was well, let me put it this way, Benjamin, this is yours to lose. And I said, Oh, I like that tough guy. And I gave him a stroke. And I said, Okay, well, can I just say this a response to that. I said, if we do work together, the first thing I'll teach you is you can't lose something you never actually had. So what are you telling me? Is Yes, yes, actually, I have yet we are going to work with you. So the rest of the meeting is taking an order. Now you can do that on a kayak. Can I ask you a question? Have you ever decided you want to buy a car? And the purpose of today is to figure out which car it is to leave with? Or do you need to be convinced that investing in a new car is what you need to be doing right now? Which are you? And people will tell you? Now, I want to leave with a car today. Right? Let's see if we can find one for you. There's a good chance we won't because we just had a big sale all the good stuffs gone? No, no, no, you can't say no, no, no, don't worry. And then you make out that year, and you just keep building it out? We don't know. So yeah. And if you and I've used that now about a dozen times, and only use it when I feel it. Every time I've got the answer I wanted and the answer has always been No, we've decided. So this is the sales meeting, I'm here to take an order. Right easy.

Jeff Sterns  48:35  
Well, what I keep noticing with you, I mean, I I'm writing down notes, I don't know if you notice I'm leaning over while you're talking. But my I got a legal pad full here, because I'm going to use it because it my day to day job is I'm selling so I'm really in gratitude, to get to talk to you. But what I also noticed with you is who you are, and your delivery. And I'm assuming that this must be in your training must be in your training, because I've had people say to me, and I've trained many, many, many people over 20 years. And well, Jeff, you can do that. But I can't do that. And that's always frustrating to me because none of this stuff was natural to me. In the beginning, everything was the result of me having a good mentor or copying someone that didn't know they were my mentor. I was just watching them and copying or reading books or whatever. None of it was natural. None of it was comfortable. None of it was well you just have this natural talent. It was all learned. It was all learned. And then, like you said, when we're making the dial. Many of us are saying please don't answer please don't answer. And sometimes, and you know, here I am a veteran 2017 For God's sake. I'm battle tested 27 years in car dealerships, and now nine years selling to car dealers. I mean, Could anyone be more scarred up but there are times times when there's someone I need to call for something, or my owner actually recently wanted me to approach another company about a certain partnership, but we've had difficulty with them before and I had that moment of having needing to get ready, needing to get ready for, but I all I have to do is have that conversation with myself like, what's the worst that can happen? They maybe they can come through the phone and kill me, you know? Or, or hang up on me. I mean, that's really about it, and then you just do it. But I love that you are I'm gonna say smiling, and it may not be an outright smile. But you're, I think that you're choosing your state. Am I am I right? Like you're you're working on your state a lot, not just the word.

Unknown Speaker  50:44  
I'm a chameleon. I when I get in front of a prospect, I give them the personality they need to feel comfortable with. So this is why when a salesman says you could do that, but I can't even technically the answer is right. No, you can't. Because you your personality is wrong. But you can create a persona and learn how to act like a different type of person. And once you learn how to do that, when you're in front of a CEO, you got to behave a different way to being in front of a finance director, CEO doesn't care about the by newsha, he's blue sky big picture, let's get a move on the finance directors, data, facts, figures stat process, you can't sell to them, a guy and a Hawaiian shirt won't sell to a guy on a pinstripe suit. But if the Garner Hawaiian shirt puts on a pinstripe suit, and tones down, and as less chatter, and as more detailed focus, the other guy will probably buy from him. So you've got to give your prospect the personality they need, not who you are. And this is why I tell me, we can't be you on a sales meeting, because you will only meet your personality 20% of the time. This is why most salesmen say well, people buy because of me. No, they only remember the times that people like them bought from them. They forget the 80% of times people thought they were a deck.

Jeff Sterns  51:56  
That's right. And we we all do that. We and it's funny, because you got to Benjamin, I believe that you've got to take credit for everything. So we all have these times that were that we remember and talk about and for me, I hope it's daily or certainly more than once a week where I don't think anyone else but me would have gotten that deal. Well, and obviously that's not true. Because if I wasn't alive, people would still be buying things in the world. But I sometimes feel like man Oh, man, I really had an impact on making that deal. But if I don't take accountability for or responsibility for that I had something to do with the 80% that don't buy from me

Unknown Speaker  52:34  
that don't take all the glory when they weren't. But when they lose, it wasn't their fault. It was timing. It was the economy. It was the election. It was COVID it's the competitors it was now What did you do wrong? Nothing. I did what I always do, I just thought I just don't get it this time.

Jeff Sterns  52:47  
It's always our fault when we get the deal. And it's not our fault. Okay.

Unknown Speaker  52:52  
To mention saying to a lawyer, why do you wouldn't trial so that was my winning personality? No, seriously? No, yeah, response winning person. Okay, I'm not gonna hire you. You go to the other guy. Why do you even try? Why? Cuz I know exactly what question to ask when to ask it when to challenge when not when to look at a jury when to raise which I got a whole routine baby. And I've done it so many times. I know how it works. Okay, I'll hire you. Because you know what you're doing. It's not luck.

Jeff Sterns  53:15  
So you've put a lot of this stuff. Obviously it obviously in your habits, you know, obviously, so talking to you, you know, I'm trying to pull you into conversation, because so much of this is push a button on you and hit play for the stuff that you probably say in your sales meetings, and seminars very, very well practice. So what about a bad habit that you know, you have that you're having a hard time? shaking? What bad habit? You know, you need to stop doing it. But you just can't? Yeah, what

Unknown Speaker  53:45  
do I need to stop doing? Oh, that's a good one. I should have asked myself this one before it came on the show. Well, for

Jeff Sterns  53:51  
me, I mean, here I'll, I'm going to answer. And by the way, this is not rehearsed. It's just as we're talking so that you're I've noticed that so much as in your cell memory. You know what you talk about, that I started thinking there's got to be some habits. So then as you're thinking about it, I'm thinking about it. So I'm the deals I don't make much more often on phone than in retail showroom. I think that I'm believable. And I think that I'm credible. And I think that I'm honest. And I'm think that I have integrity. And I think that I'm a nice guy. And I think that the person already knows that or assumes that about me, and that they're believing everything I'm saying, and then I could overstep the comfort level based on where the other guy is, when I lose a deal. Very often when I look back, it's because I didn't allow the other person enough time to know me or give myself an opportunity to get known. But it's a bad habit. But I also am happy about that with myself. Because you know, like, it ain't bragging if it's true. I mean, just when I'm analyzing myself, it's because I believe that I'm honest, and I believe that I'm trying to help them out for the best solution. And I don't do anything with a contract. So people stay with us for years. And it doesn't do me any good to stuff anyone and anything that they're gonna leave me five minutes later over. So even if I was a scoundrel, there's no motivation for that. But sometimes I forget that I'm not known to the other person.

Unknown Speaker  55:21  
Now, it's good. I'm glad you said, because I've got what I do. Yeah, you've

Jeff Sterns  55:26  
I bought you a minute. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  55:27  
good. That was good. And I understand what you said. So by would be actually would go back to my original problem, which I've got a lot better at fix having fixed, but it is still a constant challenge for me. And that is I lack nurturing. I'm a very blunt sort of put now it works most of the time in a lot of people who come to me now expect a certain character. But I sometimes I know that if I've lost a deal, if I look back at it, it's not because of anything I've done. It's the way I've said it. And I've looked back and I thought it now I'm thinking of it, it was when I asked that question in that way. That's I think that's the moment I lost them. And so it is a lack of nurturing, and it's something we're all guilty of as sales people. So when I first started selling, I would actually say to people at the beginning, I said, I'll be upfront with you. I say I tend to ask a lot of questions, but I tend to do it in a way that makes people annoyed. I said, so can you help me? If I ask a question that annoys you rather than sit there? and Sue, can you just tell me and I'll apologize. And what would happen is first of all, most indies would say don't worry about it, Benjamin, just just just do what you have to. But it gave me a safety net to practice nurturing. But if I slipped the police, it didn't blow up. I've stopped doing that. And I think on occasions on deals that I should have won, but didn't it's probably because I've lacked the nurturing and made them feel. I just think this guy's a little too harsh on confrontation. I don't want to be like him. Yes, yes, that would be fair. So yeah, I've still got like, it's I've never got to be a Zen master at this. I'm always on my way there. But I'll only be better. That's a good thing I like about what I do is because I will be better this time next year than I am now. that's a that's a career. Most sales people. As you know, from your experience, that no 510 15 years experience, I've just had the same year 510 or 15 times over?

Jeff Sterns  57:22  
Well, Benjamin, it's funny that you say that. And I want to look all respect to salespeople, I respect salespeople. No doubt about it, to me, that's the highest title you can have on a business card is salesperson. But a thing that concerns me or makes me feel bad when certain sales people experience this is you know that you'll be better next year. I hope I can say that about myself. I'm conscious of it. So I hope I'm improving. And my numbers tend to get better year over year. And the situations that are that I run into that used to be sticky are now not sticky as often. But I think that the brunt of sales, people that don't want to hone their craft and talk to someone like you like, I'm not like a terrible salesperson, but I'm still seeking someone out like you, that's how I found you. But they tend to if they don't have 15 years experience or 10 years experience, they have one year experience 10 times or they have one year experience 15 times.

Unknown Speaker  58:26  
And it goes back to the fundamental reason of how people got into sales. 90% of people in sales are there by default, not designed. This was never the plan. And the problem is because they deep down, don't want to be there. Why would you actually try to get really good? It's you know, it's like saying Why do you want to be a professional golfer? It's I don't, so why do you want the professional circuit? I fell into it and I don't know how to get out?

Jeff Sterns  58:55  
Well, it right. It's quite literally a stopover job that can sometimes consume their whole life or certainly decades. I'm fortunate that I wanted to go into sales and aggravated my dad because he didn't want me to but you know, I loved it. So Benjamin What about something that nobody knows about you?

Unknown Speaker  59:14  
That nobody knows about? Me? I suppose a lot of people would know this. I am. I'm a mini theologian. I love theology. And it's it's it's it's not something you can really talk about with a lot of people because it's quite hard to understand it can be quite so I'm all into understanding the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism eschatology, which is a study of in times hermeneutics, and trying to understand how ancient biblical scripts are put together. So that's that's something I do on the side and it's something I enjoy, and I do that but it's not something I've ever talked about. It's not something I ever because it's just a very I find it fascinating and again, because it's all language and everything, language and interpretation and structure. That's why I was attracted to law, language structured sales is language structure. So there's this theme, I guess that runs through. So by nature, I've got a lot of see in me, I shouldn't be this as gregarious, outgoing, because I qualified as a lawyer. They're quite detailed people. So I have that part of my brain, but it's kept sort of in the background, because what about selling that guy will get in the way, cuz that guy will want to talk too much about detail. So he keeps him in the back, but he comes out in my private life. Yeah,

Jeff Sterns  1:00:30  
I can I and I appreciate that answer. That's, that's a great answer. And it's nice to for me, and I hope for our audience. And I'm, I forgot, like, until I just said that, that we're recording this and it's for an audience. It's nice to know you more than the selling machine. There's more to you. And you're, you know, you're a good guy.

Unknown Speaker  1:00:50  
And this is another thing that people again, again, I I've spent, I spent so much time of my life talking to people, I'm in front of audiences, I'm delivering seminars, I'm doing training sessions, I'm recording videos, I'm always once that camera shuts off, I'm an incredibly reserved, quiet, sit at home because I just get sick of people. And I think some people forget that when you're out there all the time. People say your wife and let's be so great living with him. You know, it's, he's, he's different when he's out doing his thing, because when I come home, I hate having people over. I hate all of that, because it's the one place I can go. But I can escape having to talk

Jeff Sterns  1:01:29  
your sanctuary you want st you've, you've been performing. And you know, I'm on the phone all day. And I love being on the phone, and I love my customers. But I'll get 10 people that say Call me after work. And I don't want to call anybody. Yeah, because when I'm done on the phone, like I don't want to be on the phone, especially if I'm home and around my family. What about something that you'd want us to know about you?

Unknown Speaker  1:01:52  
Well, I'll tell you what I'd want you to know seeing as this is an American audience. I need to do more work in America. What do you drive? Well, it's a it's a it's a it's a sad Navara. But I was literally just showing my daughter seen a really cool, I think it's C for teknor. And it looks like a tank. And we were just looking at that and I said Should we get there? I got to figure out how much it weighs because there are certain weight limits on the car park facilities but yeah, but now so yeah, but I also to add a high Lux, they're like indestructible In fact, find a war spot in the world and spot the terrorists they're always on a high Lux.

Jeff Sterns  1:02:30  
Now we're going to I'm going to look that up. Benjamin I'm grateful honestly been an absolute treat. I appreciate the time you took out of your very busy schedule to give to me I contacted you out of the blue as a literal fan. And you were so nice to say sure let's set a time and we did. Well happy to happy to help.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:53  
This has been Jeff Sterns connected through cars.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Unknown Speaker  0:00  
What I realized is that all the sales problems were my own fault. Money is the outcome of doing something. Well,

Jeff Sterns  0:06  
this is a sales call, and you probably want to hang up on me. I've stolen that. And it works.

Unknown Speaker  0:11  
So if you say to somebody, you know, would you like extra fries with that? Or do you want to go live? Yeah, all right, go on it. I was gonna do it anyway. But I just wanted someone else to take the guilt off. Or

Jeff Sterns  0:20  
Benjamin, I actually think that that's the number one problem with sales people is they there's an opportunity in front of them and they get rid of it.

Unknown Speaker  0:28  
I don't need you to like me, I need you to trust me. If you want to be treated differently in the sale, you have to act differently. And most salespeople act the same way. They show up, they throw up and they hope that they'll take all the glory when they weren't. But when they lose, it wasn't their fault. I'm a mini theologian. I love theology.

Unknown Speaker  0:49  
Jeff Sterns connected through Cause if they're bigwigs, we'll have him on the show. And yes, we'll talk about cars and everything else. Here he is now, Jeff Sterns,

Jeff Sterns  1:07  
Jeff Sterns connected through cars with the most hated sales trainer in the UK, Benjamin. Now I gotta tell you who Benjamin is, and you're thinking, what would the most hated sales trainer in the UK have to do with Jeff Sterns connected through cars? Well, for those who have gotten to know me, either personally or through my shows, you know that I have this extensive car business background, which is really sales oriented, and a lot of the people that we've had on entrepreneurial or whatever, it all starts with sales. What Benjamin, Benjamin and I were just talking about before we hit the record button was, you could even have the cure for cancer. But if you can't get through to someone, or get the first doctor to try it, it wouldn't matter. I've been watching Benjamin's YouTube channel and your channel. Benjamin is UK his most hated sales trainer. My Right, yeah. Okay. So I wanted to get you all plugged in as much as possible right in the beginning. Because once we get past my typical 22 to 28, second, viewer time length, sticking with us, I want to make sure I want to turn it over to you. here in a minute, I want you to tell us all the ways to get ahold of it right up front. And I wouldn't mind a little origin from you because I'm enamored by what you do doing live sales calls on your YouTube channel. I've just I'm not so real.

Unknown Speaker  2:33  
Right? So folks, if you want to get a hold of me, the place that I hang out most is LinkedIn. So if you just put in LinkedIn UK most hated sales trying to find me also my youtube channel UK his most hated sales trainer ironically, my website UK most hated sales trainer.com and if you need to email me ironically, it's my name Benjamin at UK his most hated sales trainer.com so I'm in

Jeff Sterns  2:58  
the in the show notes, Benjamin, I'll have it in there. So you guys can look below when you're subscribing and liking because of Benjamin finally. So Benjamin give us a little origin. It's so darn interesting. You do these YouTube videos about you cold calling into businesses and of course, calling out sales people on their normal excuses, but I am dying to know your background.

Unknown Speaker  3:20  
Right? So So originally, I'm from New Zealand and I'm pretending lisman and I qualified as a lawyer as an attorney, barrister under the British system, I qualified as a barrister. I was going to spend my life defending criminals that was the plan. But I wanted to do some travel before I grew up. So I come to England, which is where 81 from the colonies normally first port of call as you go to England, you know, you got to the motherland. So arrived in England, started working in bars and pubs back in the day. So this is like the year $2,000 arrived just on the turn of the century. So would work in pubs. And you get free board, free food, free drinks, and you get paid. I think you save up money and you go traveling, and then you'd come back. And so I love that lifestyle. I did that for several years. Then I decided Time to go home time to grow up. Go back to New Zealand course after doing experiencing the world, New Zealand, I suppose New Zealand a lot like Wichita, Kansas, just an island. I thought, well, I'll go to England. So I returned to England, I thought, well, I'll just become a lawyer here. It doesn't quite work like that. You can't just start if they want to be because I hadn't done five years post qualifying experience. They wanted me to do another two years of training, qualify for their bar. And I thought I don't want to do that. I can jump on a plane and practice back home. So I did what anyone else who needs a job or has no skills. What do they do? They go to sales. Yeah. That's how we end up in sales. Nobody wants this for themselves. Yeah, it's the default position when you've tried everything else, get a job in sales. So I started in recruitment I set a company record, I was there for six months, and I didn't recruit a single person. I was absolutely useless at it. I cuz I didn't know how to sell. I didn't know it was a sales. But one thing I had I had a unique skill, I was very good at getting appointments on the phone. And in fact, I was so bad I was given a weeks notice and see Benjamin, you've got a week's notice if you don't do anything, you're not going to be in the week after next. So the week out that week, I went back, and I just hit the phones as hard as I could. And I got a lot of appointments. And so my manager delayed stalking me. He said, I'll tell you what, Pedro, just do more of what you did this week. So I did it again. And I've got a lot more meetings. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna give you a new job. You're no good at recruitment, but you are good at lead development in business. So we want you just solely hitting the phones and setting appointments for real recruiters to go on. And it seems easy. So that's what I did. So that's how I got into telephone prospecting. Then ironically, I got poached by another company, can you believe it? And this company specialized in setting up appointments for advertising agencies in the City of London, I didn't know anything about advertising or marketing. But I figured how hard could it be? And again, I did very well at that. And so I decided to go out on my own, why worked for a company working on various accounts when I could find my own advertising agencies and sell on my service. So that's what I did. And I double my income overnight. And I got to pick who I work with. So for eight years, all I would do would be telephone calls, and set up appointments with virtually every brand you've probably consumed in a supermarket. And England, and one of the CEOs of one of these agencies said you're very good. Why are you good? I said honestly, he goes, he said, No.

Unknown Speaker  6:41  
And he goes, I'll tell you what, if you could figure out why you're good at what you do. He goes, I think you'd make a lot of money because you could show other people how to do it. Like that. That's what started the journey on maybe I should figure out why I'm good at what I do. And so I started looking at read lots of books on sales. And like I said, I don't knock any sales book, you're all these different methodologies, you got spin, you've got Sandler, you got Zig Ziglar, you got the challenger sale, what I realized is, is that it's a psychology that underpins everything. And I was introduced to psychology and transactional analysis and things like that, what I realized is that all the sales problems were my own fault. And when I started realizing I had to change, it wasn't prospects, it had to change. And I started realizing that selling was a lot like law, it was a system, it was a process. If I did the same thing over and over again, really, really well. I'd be continually successful. And then I figured out why struggling work. I didn't know why. But then our ta helped me understand it. So the psychology helped me understand why what I was doing intuitively worked. And then when you know why something works, you can do it deliberately and consciously. That's what I started doing. And I started getting better and better and better and better at doing the same stuff over and over again, never deviating if I screwed up, try and figure out what I did wrong and fix it. Realizing that any pressure I felt was all self imposed. prospects can't make you feel pressure. Because you're not even in the room with us how Why do I feel pressure, so it's my fault. So they've said or done something that's triggered something inside of me if I could stop that going off, always be in control. And I spent years doing it. And then people started paying me to teach them how to do what I do. And I spent some time with a really great sales trainer who taught me a lot of stuff. And it's just I've got better and better but I don't change. It's like for production line. Nothing changes in my world. I

Jeff Sterns  8:27  
got to ask Where did the most hated trainer idea come?

Unknown Speaker  8:31  
Ah, well, I have LinkedIn and people's egos to thank for that. So I met a guy who was known as a UK his number one motivational speaker and I said how they how did you become that he goes, replaced 26 of my book, which he gave me so I don't have to buy. He gave me his book. And I'm waiting 26 How did I become the number one most of it? Because I've made it up? Okay. And what he said is and then it's truly what it is. It's it's a if you say something enough people will believe it. So all you got to do is Mohamad, that if somebody said to you, I am the greatest that who would you think of and Muhammad Ali, Muhammad Ali. But you know, technically he wasn't he just said it over and over again that now anyone that comes along and says it, it's No you're not. It's Mohammed Ali. So he said, find a space and create it. So I went on LinkedIn. And I looked at other sales gurus. And this is what I noticed. They all call themselves leaders, gurus, number one, the best leader, performer, and so everyone wants to be loved. Look at me, look how great I am okay, and I hope no one wants to be hated. Which means is no one in this space, which means if I plant my flag, I'll own it. And that's where the UK is most hated. Because no one wants to be hated. Now all I got to do was say that over and over again. Which was weird to do when you first started with standing up in front of a roomful of people sitting out in the business. Hi, my name is Benjamin. I'm the UK most hated sales trainer, but it resonated with people and I kept pushing it and it allows me to be my personality to be particularly blunt and direct, which is what self people need. And so that's how it came about it was to not be your sound like all the other LinkedIn experts.

Jeff Sterns  10:11  
So Benjamin, whether it's someone famous or someone close to you, could you name three people that were inspirational to you that you draw back on?

Unknown Speaker  10:22  
Yeah, so Marcus Kalki, he's a sales trainer. He's got his own business now. We're still good friends. So he mentored and got, so he was bigger. I have to say this, it always sounds cheesy and cliche, but I gotta say, my wife, because she supported me. The number of times I wanted to, you know, quit doing what I was doing, because I couldn't make it work is it changing one self was hardest. And if you don't have a supportive wife, and you got a baby, and you quit your job, and you say, I'm just gonna do this. So she's been important, who's the third person?

Jeff Sterns  10:56  
I don't think that's cheesy at all, for you to give the credit to your wife. I think more people need to do that. Because if you don't have that support at home, it's really hard to go out and do what you need to do it

Unknown Speaker  11:04  
is. And I've met so many people that have said, I want to be able to do what you do. I want to set up a business and I go, Why don't want to make money. I go, what if money is your motivation? This is bad, because you're going to be poor for the next three to five years. So let's start you're going to have a passion that you know, if you get good at it, the money will come. And Does your wife support you? Now she thinks it's a stupid idea. And I wouldn't do it. Because if I get a wife,

Jeff Sterns  11:27  
you'd mentioned that, you know, if money is the motivator, that could be dangerous, because you'll be poor for a while. On another show. I had a recorded conversation with Malcolm Bricklin. Malcolm Bricklin, the father, Subaru in North America, made his first million take home pay in the bank, when he was 1819 years old, around the year 1960. And what he said on the show was that he learned that money was not the motivator, it has to be passion, because when he got that money, he got paralyzed. All he worried about is not taking away from or damaging the million that he had, he didn't want to touch it at all never mattered before because he never had it. So he was a little bit paralyzed, he was contracted, he wasn't making any moves. And then he finally decided to put the kids already to put the money in his kids names in trust, so that he couldn't mess it up. And then went out and started working again, the money messed him up finding the next thing that he was crazy about is what got him going.

Unknown Speaker  12:32  
Yeah, and I think that's it, um, money is the outcome of doing something well. And I think most successful people know that if you're a good lawyer, you make a lot of money. But your primary goal is to be a good lawyer, if you're a good surgeon, you make a lot of a good golfer you make a lot of the money is secondary, it just comes. But if you're already focused on the outcome, which is I want to make a lot of money, you probably won't get good at what you do. So I'd say there's an exception to every rule, obviously. But now I believe you need a passion. It's something you're gonna love doing. And I loved doing what I did. So yeah, and so the third one, I'm gonna say something controversial, because he helped me with my brand. It's your ex President, Mr. Trump. It was his red hat. It was it was it was all over. I saw that I thought Nick amnet. Yeah, I was like they said these that saying isn't that genius creates but brilliant steals. Yeah. And I'm a true believer in that, you know, something's got a good idea that you Nick it and you use it. Now, everything I teach, I've stolen, I haven't made any of the stuff up. I'm upfront about that. It's all stolen. But I just got good at doing stuff that people seem to get good at doing rather than read it and stick it on my bookshelf. So everyone can think I'm smart.

Jeff Sterns  13:39  
You are talking about the stuff that's in your head, as a salesperson, you know, all the the obstacles are in your head. Can you debunk? Or can you bust a myth?

Unknown Speaker  13:49  
Right? So yeah, this is this is this is one of my favorite things. So we are the product of a program of the Romans used to have a saying, Give me a boy until the age of seven, and I will show you the man. So they knew before modern psychiatry and all our medicine, they knew that the first seven years were the most formative in the development of a child. Yeah. And so that that's until it's, it's true, because he now you look back at what were you taught as a child that could prevent you from being any good at selling. And we were a lot of roles. You were two there are three in particular that stand out that you were taught as a child that no one ever told you don't apply as a grown up. So you, you have what psychologists call scripted behaviors, and it's a programming. One of the rules we were all taught was never talk to strangers.

Jeff Sterns  14:34  
Right? The opposite of cold. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  14:36  
no, that's a great rule. It's a great rule for a child but no one when I ask anyone, did your mom or dad ever tell you that rule doesn't apply when you're a grown up? And everyone goes no. Right? So it's there. It's still there. It's still a rule. Then you get the other room. What do we all talk? It's rude to interrupt. So now you have room to enter again. Did anyone tell you as a grown up, you can interrupt anybody you want? No. Right? That's another rule. You've gotten it. Then the final one is you a program that you had to answer questions your entire life growing up, your mum and dad be pointing at pictures in a book. What's that? What's that? What's this? What's that? If you got it, right, you got praise, very important to a developing brain, you need the praise the smile, so you feel good about yourself, you feel loved, you feel accepted. If you've got it wrong, depending on childhood, you know, it could be anywhere from locked into the basement through to what most of us are hopefully got was no, no, try again. So you try again. And you keep going until you got it right when you got it right. You got praise again. So your brain was programmed that he will always answer a question and be it should always trying to get the right answer. Again, no one told you that that doesn't apply as a grown up. No one said, you know, God's having questions as an option. You didn't have that right. As a child, it was an absolute mandated behavior. So now fast forward to 25 years of age, you get a new job sales job, they give you a list of CEOs who you've never spoken to before. You know, they're busy because they're busy guys CEO. Yeah. And instead they say phone them. And as you pick up that phone, or these tapes start playing, your mom starts screaming at you. What are you gonna say to women you get through? He's a stranger. He's not gonna want to be interrupted. How are you gonna want to miss questions? Do you know he's gonna know a lot? So they're self sabotaging even before the guy answers, and then when the guy answers they act all startled. Oh, hi, sorry to disturb you. My name is Benjamin from a How are you today? They all say the same thing. Fine. No one ever sees art or for my wife.

Jeff Sterns  16:32  
And they're thinking, what do you hear?

Unknown Speaker  16:34  
It's insincere. But they just think because it's a reaction. I don't know what to do. Somebody I just like a little bit of time to introduce a guy I'm not interested by the sample. No wonder didn't work. You know what the average salesman's thinking when the phone is dialing. You know, what's going through the average salesman's head as the phone is dialing. They're thinking about some kind of abuse or pain about to happen, or rejection. I used to think he please don't answer please don't answer.

Jeff Sterns  16:58  
Please, please don't answer. Okay. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  17:00  
And they wouldn't I do you think they want to be seen to be doing the behavior, but they don't want to actually do it? Yeah. And then I have a bad call, they have to spend five minutes putting that into the CRM system to buy them some room. And then they got to figure out the next. So before, there's about six minutes in between each call now. And then after about 40 minutes, and five God calls. You've done nothing. But it's these wrongs, you can't interrupt, it's rude to interrupt, you better have an answer to their question. And it's a stranger. And then the authority, you hear your mum say, what are you going to say to him, when you get through, you're an account executive, this guy runs a successful business. So this is all the head trash that's going on. It's getting people to realize you don't have to listen to your mum and dad anymore. Stop taking mum to work, leave her at home.

Jeff Sterns  17:54  
You and one of your videos, instead of saying, could I just have five minutes to tell you what I have? or half a minute or whatever? You said, Listen, this is a sales call, and you probably want to hang up on me. I've stolen that and it works. So if anyone in the audience because it's refreshing, I think or you know what, I'm not even gonna call it refreshing if we're gonna get down to the science. I think it's a pattern interrupt. You said that there's, yep, there's a reflex. When can I help you in a store? Can I help you just look in? How are you fine, but nothing sincere. I don't think there's a reflex answer. Listen, this, I want to this is a quick sales call. And you're probably gonna want to hang up on me. There's nothing inside of them ready to deal with that?

Unknown Speaker  18:40  
will say yeah, so there is a psychology behind it. And so people try and imitate it, but they get the wording wrong. It's all quite specific. So you know, I said, I'll be up front. This is a sales call. So you can either hang up now or let me have 30 seconds. What do you want to do? Now? I asked that question. First, I asked a question. Because I know that guy's been programmed the same way everyone else was he has to answer his moments in his face, and you've been around to the man. So he answers. I also I deliberately, and this is why it works on CEOs and decision makers. Well, yeah. Because Well, it is what the guys at the top hate being what do they hate the most? They hate being told what to do. So I deliberately tell them what to do. And the rebellious child reacts Gateley and says, No, we're not gonna hang up. What's it about? So I've changed the call from being a cold call to a permission based call. So the psychology is that so Hannah, we sent talk to me. And it works 95% of the time, every now and then someone doesn't like it. But the delivery if you deliver it like a wimp Yeah, sorry to disturb a lobby up front. This is a this is a sales call. would you would you would you like to hang up? Yes. So if you don't deliver it, well, it won't work. And if you're talking To a decision maker, you got to mirror them, you got to sound like them short, sharp clip to the point, assertive but not rude, and they react to it. It sounds like me, I like the cut of his jib. And also disarming honesty is the fastest way to bond with a stranger. And that is disarmingly honest, as I'll be upfront, it is a sales call. So do I hang out now? Or let me have 30 seconds? What do you want to do? Benjamin? That's

Jeff Sterns  20:20  
awesome. I've always said that. It's who you are, when you're saying it. It's like the right person can almost deliver any script that almost doesn't matter and the right script, if you're not who you need to be, when you're delivering it, it's not going to work. So are you aware of this either real or made up little feud between the Wolf of Wall Street and Grant Cardone?

Unknown Speaker  20:44  
I am aware of it. There's actually a YouTube channel of me critiquing Balfour and Cardona in an interview with another chap called might want to and we critique these two guys and

Jeff Sterns  20:54  
then perfect, I'll have to look at that and I'll put that in the show notes. We will watch but who did you have on coming out on top of that?

Unknown Speaker  21:04  
kado last because I think he just he says arguments never stacked up. And he's basically like a machine just do this over and over. And yeah, anybody who does anything enough you will make so it's not hard to get someone to give you money. If you fire it up a badger a lot of people eventually someone will give in but it's how do you repeat that and make it professional? You can't so he kept falling and as he gets to this bit reset you know, I got fish I got fishing as it were for the garden one fish.

Jeff Sterns  21:35  
Right? Well, that's that's why you need 8000 products or something. Right? Okay.

Unknown Speaker  21:39  
I don't need fish. You can't sell some fish. It doesn't want fish or need fish or disasters. Right?

Jeff Sterns  21:45  
And do you believe that no interest is a level of interest

Unknown Speaker  21:49  
Ah, now you've got to qualify is no interest a smokescreen objection to get rid of you? Or is it real? So yeah, I tend to some objections are red lights, and they can't be moved. Yes, or some things aren't objections in statements of fact, like if somebody said, we don't have sales people now you must do no, we don't we I honestly, bagent we don't we don't have any sales people. We don't do any selling function. Unless I can prove them as a lie. That could be a state and I've had a company so it turned out he was right. He didn't have any sales guys. It was not his business got money coming in. They didn't have to sell it. It was like a commodity. There was no selling involved in this particular type of product. He just took orders like McDonald's doesn't have sales people, right? Yeah, right. There's no salespeople in McDonald's, you go into place an order, you're not in there to make a decision on whether or not you want to buy that to be made.

Jeff Sterns  22:33  
I think the person at McDonald's when they're asking to offer a hot apple pie with that, and made have some bonus on that you don't think one person's delivering that better and getting more hot apple pies. So

Unknown Speaker  22:46  
always possible, some guy can make it more appealing the upsell sort of thing. But they're not selling them something they probably wouldn't have bought anyway had they not been prompted. It's like the confectionery at the aisle. As you go at the supermarket, it's deliberately put there it's known as an invitation to treat and they know that people can't resist so if you say to somebody, you know, would you like extra fries without? Or do you want to go lighter? Yeah. All right, go on it. I was gonna do it anyway. But I just wanted someone else to take the guilt off me.

Jeff Sterns  23:14  
Well, sales is so important. And it's funny because these days, in the car business, there's a lot of conversation about and I'm, by the way, I'm, you know, my job is I'm VP of sales for car chat 24. And a couple other verticals are v chat, etc. But I'm talking to car dealers. And with COVID. In the last year, something called Digital retailing has become a big thing and a big word. And this is where the customer could do everything from A to Z online, maybe have the car delivered to a maybe only show up to get the car, this sort of thing. The idea is, is that the customer wants to be in control. I actually disagree with that. I don't think the customer really wants to be in control, I think of going a little bit of a higher step above McDonald's in the restaurant business. I think that if you're at a decent restaurant where you want a decent experience, and the more expensive it is, I would say the more that the rule that you should be in control would apply. So let's say it's $100 a person before drinking, I say the customer doesn't want to be in control. I say that they want to run into somebody that can lead them like will have the fish and you want a good waiter is going to be like Ah, I don't know about today. You want somebody to guide you. And I mean, you might think you want to be in control through all these steps in electronic step. But it really does take somebody to guide and lead and I even think confront a little What do you think?

Unknown Speaker  24:38  
No, I completely agree. I think all the online digital stuff is just a nice way of missing they don't have good sales people. They only had order takers anyway, so we can automate it. Then let's automate. So you always have some people some people have decided to buy a car and they're gonna leave with a car and you put the right salesman in front you could put a monkey in roller skates strategically shaved and they close That deal. Yeah. So x. Yeah, that's not hard. Yeah. But yes, you are quite right. The experiences as most prospects thinks they know what their problem is, but they don't. It's like going to a doctor. Most people go on Google now and they think they know more than the doctor. Well, you don't you think you do because Dr. Google has given you all the info, but you still don't know. Because you don't know the questions to ask yourself. But I do. Because I've been years and you don't know these questions. You don't know that. If you do this, that that could happen. And then the chain reaction is this. You don't know that. So you don't know having the white Beaujolais with the monkfish actually will make it taste blitter. You don't know that you think Wow. So the concierge says. So I would recommend that you go more with a version low because there are no good. Okay. Well, I'll take your advice is slightly more expensive, sir. But it will make the experience better. Yeah. So you are right. Our job is to challenge the prospect. Unless you've got one, as I say, like the McDonald's person. I know what I want. I want McDonald's, I want to feel my sensation. I'm going to place an order. In fact, that's the only time a salesman can really screw up because they can actually turn you off. You can be such a dick. They walk out.

Jeff Sterns  26:12  
Well, Benjamin, I actually think that that's the number one problem with salespeople is they there's an opportunity in front of them, and they get rid of it.

Unknown Speaker  26:20  
They talk themselves out of more deals. And they talk and

Jeff Sterns  26:22  
yeah, I think It usually starts with Hello. And you know, what I love about you? And I mean, look, audience, I want you to know that. I mean, I invited Benjamin on here because I'm like his honest to god fan. I mean, if you're in sales, if you're interested in sales, if you're not in sales, but you Oh, you're just curious about the subject, like what goes on on the other side. The guy's got it down. And he's very, very real. And eventually we'll get into what the hell is it with the red suspender. But I noticed and maybe it's only because of what I've watched, I haven't gone through your whole video, I noticed a lot of cold call opening which has helped me a lot. I mean, let me just say it's helped me a lot in calling into businesses to sell my software and consulting. But when it comes to closing it, you know when I'm talking when I'm listening to Grant Cardone his volume of calls, volume of calls volume of calls, just get in front of someone volume, volume, volume, and then when I'm listening to Belfort, I'm hearing no one, you're wasting your time or their time and no one to walk in, you know, being a little more discerning what I found, when I sold exotic cars for 10 years, you know, the rolls, the Bentley, the Lotus, the odd used Ferrari, Lamborghini, whatever. And now even in the software business, it's the same. When I was in the exotic car business, we ended up number one certified Pre Owned in the United States. Number one, Bentley Continental order list the united states that the largest dealer in the country, but got close, which was interesting because we are in a city, Clearwater, Florida where nobody drove one. So it wasn't like Lauderdale, Palm Beach, or Dallas, Houston or Beverly Hills, or you know, in New York, nothing like that. So I was proud of it. But what we did, three of us is we made an average of legitimately we measured it 100 outbound calls a day, leaving messages for people that we met, however, we would meet them at a charity fundraiser, or they were an inbound call from an exotic car advertising source. Or we met them through a club or used our service department, however, we met them referred, and then we put them on a program of calling them every I forget the interval now every two or I think it was two months. And then when we got too many to call, we made it every three months so that we can manage it, we got it down to by the way that the average nurture on those was 18 months. But at the end of five or six years, we measured from meeting somebody to actually close them the average to getting them into a car, the average was 18 months. And that meant for every athlete, they got a sign on bonus that came in and bought a car same moment, we had somebody else that we talked to for three years, but I called it a marketing job. We're selling a car got in the way. Now here in the chat lead. Of course, I'm trying to sell someone sooner than a year and a half. Although I've certainly I've been here nine years. I've certainly written people after three, four or five years or wrote them for the second or third time, you know when they've left and come back over nine years. But here's some Tell me how you feel about this. What I found is, is that my rhythm gets screwed up if they want to start talking about buying and they want to start talking about money on one of the very first phone calls. Because I find that if I can get some messages into them or some conversations into them. Prior to that, that my credibility is higher my trust factor is higher and my difficulty in negotiating is less because of who I am to them by the time we get to money when it's early. I find that it's just a money struggle because I'm nobody to them yet. I don't have I didn't put in the work. So I'm not hoping They don't answer. Like you said like don't answer don't answer. I'm kind of hoping they don't buy it unless they just want to just take it in not make it difficult. But that's rare. But I'm, I'm a little bit don't answer, not out of fear. But out of I want to get three or four more calls or conversations in before it comes down to money. What do you think about that?

Unknown Speaker  30:21  
Well, I I believe in challenging so I bought my view of selling is, there is more reasons for someone not to buy from me than there is to buy from me, which means I am going to figure out why they can't buy with me and deal with it straightaway. So. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing is the difference, which I pointed out this difference in a prospecting call on a sales call a prospecting call is to get someone into the sales funnel. Selling is what you do once you're in front of you. So if you ask the average salesman, what is the purpose of a prospecting call? You get answers like or to get a meeting, to get a sale, to get an appointment, to find pain, to find need to educate, to whatever I got no, no, no, all of those are wrong. Because those are all outcomes. All of those are what you call a potential outcome. What is the purpose? And this is where everyone gets confused. You see, what if you ask the lawyer, what is the purpose of a trial? They wouldn't say, to get a quarter to get a conviction to get a one? No, no, no, no, those are outcomes of a trial. What's the purpose of the PA? And then they give you this philosophical, or the purpose of a trial, blah, blah, blah. So what is the purpose of a prospect good, simple. People buy emotionally and justify intellectually. So the purpose of a sales call is to get a human being who's sitting at their desk, or wherever have they is Larry feeling intellectual? and make them feel a little bit emotional about whatever it is that I fix? Well put, so that is the purpose. That is all I'm here to do. I'm not there to sell anything. I want this guy to say, Hmm, maybe you do have something, Benjamin, and perhaps we should explore it further. That's a job done, I'll get the appointment, and then I'll sell. Now if I'm at a sale and price comes up straightaway. early on. And again, it all depends who you're talking to. But let's say it's the managing director or president or CEO, and he says subagent before we start How much is this gonna cost me? I give him a stroke? I know, that's a good question. You know, I don't often get asked that question. So early on in the process, happy to answer that. But before I do, can I ask you one quick question? Yeah. Is price going to be the only factor that you're considering? So if I can ask the question, the rule is never answer it, flick it back. It's not my problem to deal with. This is his so I'm going to flick it back. When you flick it back to them. They say two things. They either say yes. Or they say not No, not not a not an entirely. And if I say yes, I go in that case. Well, I'm gonna be upfront, I'm going to cost more than you want to invest. So I set them up Waibel, have you got to figure in your head of what you want to spend? Yeah, again, 20%. I was waiting for that. Yeah, that's probably what you're gonna have to invest? Is that figure too high? Ah, so I got, and I deal with it like that. I happy to talk about price now. But I'm going to be honest, it's expensive. And before we worry about price, I haven't even decided if you could be my next client. Because in order for you to be my next client, you need to convince me that the size of your problem is outweighed by the fees, I'm going to charge you. That's awesome. And that's it. I'm not going to sell you something if my fees are bigger than the size of your problem. Yeah. So somebody sees you, how much is it for this car? I know, that's a fair question. You know, normally when somebody asked me that, it means you're on a pretty tight budget. Is that the case here? Ah, well, we'll ballpark it for me. How much do you have to spend just roughly and figures now that lie? Yeah.

Jeff Sterns  33:37  
Right. Of course. I won't hold you to it. Right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  33:39  
Yeah. And then they'll give you a ballpark. Okay. So we'll only look at cars valued under $8,000. In, shall we? Yeah. Can I ask you a question? What if you see a car that takes all your boxes, but comes in at nine and a half an hour? I I don't know what to do. You got to say no, right? can't bind? Well, no, not necessarily. What do you mean? Well, I could maybe you fight or fight or whatever they say. They say what the moment you threatened to take something away from someone, I started to find an excuse why they could figure out a way of getting there. And if they can't do that, it means they literally only have 8000 bucks. By the way I would because I know what I've got to work with here.

Jeff Sterns  34:17  
Yeah, that is so interesting. My favorite answer to how much is that car is we're selling everything at half value today. What do you mean? I'm going to show you the car, let me show it to you. First, it's gonna take me about 20 minutes to go around the whole thing. Then when I'm done. I'm gonna show you the price on it. If he didn't think it was gonna be twice as much. I'll show it to you again. I like it. That's cool. But I like how you open up with I'm gonna be upfront with you. I noticed that a lot of your lines. I'm gonna be upfront with you.

Unknown Speaker  34:47  
Yeah, are you and I don't say let me be honest, because it gives the impression that you're No, that's bullshit. So I hate the phrase. Let me be honest. Yeah. So I know it's I'll be up front. Yep. So one of the things I teach people is I blow up bombs. And a bomb is something that I know in my world is likely to ruin my deal. So rather than wait for it to happen at the end, I destroyed at the beginning, I can look before we start the meeting. Should I tell you the three reasons you're going to tell the man today? And everyone can't say no, don't they all, particularly in the CEOs and presidents I don't I got one are bloody expensive. If you're going to do this, you got to be looking at investing anywhere between 50 to 100,000 pounds. So that's the first thing the money to time. Do you know how long it's gonna take to get good at what I teach. This isn't a two day dog and pony show, we're going to be looking at a six to 12 month relationship of me coming in at least couple of days a month with yourselves guys. So that's a big commitment. And the third one is this. A lot of you guys are going to hate it and probably quit. So let me ask you a question. Let's pretend we decide we could and should work together. Are any of those going to be your reason? We can't even if you want to. And now we have a fight. And they argue with me while I'm wrong.

Jeff Sterns  36:00  
That is honestly beautiful. That

Unknown Speaker  36:03  
and it takes courage to do that. Because both feet No, no. What if they say no? Good. I want to leave because it we're never gonna buy anyway. You've been you've got to talk them around. Not if it's a red light. If he doesn't have that money and can't find it. It's not a bloody Game Show. You know it's over.

Jeff Sterns  36:19  
Is there anyone that you want? That you don't or you won't work with?

Unknown Speaker  36:23  
Yeah, lawyers and accountants. Why? Because first I'll never acknowledge they're in sales. They have a pathological you know, they've hit their professional people. Yeah. In fact, it used to be so about a barrister of England traditionally has it with a gown and on the back could be a pocket. And the the accused in the 19th and 18th century would have to stick the money in that little bag because they weren't allowed to touch it. Yeah, it's just tradition. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Sterns  36:49  
So for us Americans, for us Americans, a barrister, a judge, and now an attorney. It's an attorney or an attorney. Forgive me, I didn't even know. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  36:56  
so the guy that represents so when England solicitors do all the backend stuff, the paperwork that the wills the probate, but the barrister can represent you in court. Not all lawyers in England can stand in a court and defend you. It's not like America where you can, it's different. So anyway, um, the reason why is they won't admit they're in sales. The other one is, is they believe they have to be professional all the time. And one of the things I teach people is, the key to being a good salesman is not actually being a salesman. So I deliberately struggle on purpose. Because I know that when I struggle, it forces the other person to rescue me. And when they rescue me, their mom gives them a stroke, he says, You're a nice kid, and he feels good about himself. So the more people feel good about themselves, when they're around me, they start to lower their defenses. So I deliberately struggle, I don't take a pen to a sales meeting. And I have to borrow one. And I look like I act like I'm embarrassed. It's all part of the making them comfortable. So lawyers, and accountants can't act like that, because they feel they've got to behave a certain way the whole time. But actually, you'll find the best lawyers are the ones that people at first thing, I'm not really too sure if he knows what he's doing. But actually, he's really good, because they don't feel they need to impress you, someone who's very good at what they do doesn't feel the need to impress, I don't need you to like me, I need you to trust me. And they're two different things for you to trust me, I'm gonna have to ask you uncomfortable questions. And to do that you need to feel comfortable. So I've got to make you comfortable, ergo, oh, at least professional.

Jeff Sterns  38:24  
So what you're really saying is in sales, if you acknowledge and own that you're in sales, you can do human, you can do human. Those two hung up on up on professionalism. And I'm not, I'm not implying that somebody shouldn't be professional. But it can take away a little bit of the human factor.

Unknown Speaker  38:46  
It does want to think of it this way. When you're at school, unless it was you did anybody like the smartest kid in class? No. Yeah. Why do salespeople try and be the smartest person in the room?

Jeff Sterns  38:57  
to show off I'm assuming

Unknown Speaker  38:59  
Exactly. And it doesn't work. It alienates people. So by by by allowing people to feel comfortable around me, they lower their defense walls, because naturally, they don't trust me because I'm a salesman. The greatest honor I know is this whenever I go out to a party, or I'm at some social event, yeah, I got the long hair. I never dress up fancy. And I'll be talking away with somebody individually that they finally get around to saying so what do you do for a living because I never asked me I go What do you think I do? So I flick it back. Yeah. And they look at me and they go are you like a musician or something? No. What do you think they Well, you know, you got the long No, no, no, not a musician. What else do you think I could be? I get well I've enjoyed it. You're quite good at listening you some sort of Are you a counselor or something? No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, I'm What are you? Like if I told you have a corporate sales trainer? What would you say? Like I know, like a Why? They go well, you're not an asshole.

Jeff Sterns  39:54  
So speaking of the long hair, and the whatever, what's what's the red suspenders They hold my trousers up, but when you're not wearing them now, but I see them always, or almost always,

Unknown Speaker  40:08  
it all goes back to the psychology. So when I turn up to an office for the first time, and if someone's never seen any of my videos or know who I am, I get that look. And it's that look that I look for. And it's that look of incredulity. You see the AMD or the CEO, look at me, and I see that lock in. It's like, Who is this idiot? And the moment I get that, look, I know that I'm probably going to win, because they don't feel threatened by a guy and suspenders with long hair, who's forgotten a pen? And the moment that I'm able to do what I do, they forget all about that, because I'm good at asking questions and getting them thinking. And so are the true store. I worked with a some currency traders in the City of London proper Wolf of Wall Street stuff. So I rocked up on the first day, no one had actually met me, per se. And I turned up and I get one to the really flash offices. And I've got my hat on. I've got a jacket on and I'm carrying a box. And the receptionist. I said, Yes, I'd like to speak with so and so the CEO. She goes, have you got a delivery for him? I see. No, no, no, no, no, no, I have an appointment. Because while I let them know you're here, and I sat in reception for ages. I don't want anything. They phoned up. I think they just ignored me. So remember, this girl came down and Okay, excuse me. Are you with ABC company? She goes, Yeah, you couldn't let Brian know that Benjamin's here, could you? And she goes, Oh, you must be the painter. I said no, no, no, tell him it's the expensive sales trainer. And I thought this is it. You walk into these plus offices, and you get confused with the delivery man and the painter would actually you're a highly paid consultant. And that makes me feel good. Because when I stand in front of a roomful of guys suited and booted, and acquit, I get the question. And I get it all the time. I had a 1111 sent to me, Benjamin, I'll be upfront with you. I understand what you're saying and why you reckon we should do and behave like this. He goes, why don't we honestly, we don't sell to people like that. If you did what you do to the sorts of people we sell to? I think they throw you out? I said, No, that's a fair point. So can I ask you a question then said, How did I get here? Your SEO is exactly the type of man you sell to. So how is it that I am here? If what you said is right.

Jeff Sterns  42:24  
So you're talking about victories? Do you ever get shut down? Because you forgot your pen? And how are you going to teach us how to sell if you can't forget that? Remember the number one basic a pen? Let's be honest, come on.

Unknown Speaker  42:37  
No. The pen is probably made me more money than anybody else. Because the number of people that pull me up on at the end of the meeting. I remember one this is a true. So I've been one CEO, we get to the end of the meeting, he gets all right beads. And he goes, I'll tell you off. He goes. I'm in. I want to do this. I believe you can help me and I want to work with you. Because I've got one question. I said, Yeah, what is it two? He goes that thing you did at the beginning of this meeting with your pen? Was that a trick? I scratched my head? I go, What do you mean? See, I never answer I flick it back with a question. What do you mean fpds? To justify what he just said, Well, I he goes, I don't think you forgot to bring a pen. I think you did that on deliberate. I think that's some sort of technique that you're using on me. Now we're in a boardroom with other people. And over someone at this lady on the board said, why would you forget to bring a pin? And he goes, I don't know. But I know he's done it for a reason. And she goes, Well, I can't see why anyone would do it. It's unprofessional. And then I turned to her and I said, Can I ask you a question? Who taught you you have to be a professional when selling? She goes, Well, you have to be I said, Who taught you that? and Why? Well, because you're representing the company. You can't turn up and look unprofessional. I said, so if you forgot a Pim, what would you be thinking about at the moment? She goes, Well, I feel embarrassed. I go Ha. So can I ask a question? Why you thinking or feeling about you at a sale? And she goes on before she can answer the CEO snapped his finger. And this is all done. Because the first thing he told me when we spoke on the phone before met him was he needed a mindset change and a sales people. And at that precise moment, he clicked his finger. And he said, mindset, this man has a completely different mindset from all of us. That's what he goes. So was it a move? I said, Well, if I told you it wasn't what would you say? see another question. And he goes, Well, I wouldn't want to call you a liar. I said, in that case, I'll be upfront with you. It is a move. He gets I thought so I just knew it was some sort of trip. I'd like to explain to you why I do I go but I get and this is the truth. I said, I do this all the time. And you know what actually has happened now i get i get i actually genuinely do forget to bring pins now. And it goes because it's a habit. I think Jessica sets even better. hook line and sinker. So if you want to be treated differently in the sale, you have to act differently. And most salespeople act the same way. They show up, they throw up and they hope

Jeff Sterns  45:00  
Well put, well, we're getting a free seminar here. I mean, this is listen, folks, this is an expensive guy.

Unknown Speaker  45:07  
Yes, very. And it's not American dollars. It's the profit pound.

Jeff Sterns  45:11  
It's right. It's real money. It's a real currency. Yeah. But in America, we think that you know, we of course, set the world standard and everything. Now you are working here in Florida.

Unknown Speaker  45:22  
I was in beginning last year in Florida. I'm coming back to America. I've been invited to speak at some events run by insurers funnily enough, in where am I going somewhere in Texas? I can't remember the name but San Antonio, San Antonio, Texas, I'll be the end of September.

Jeff Sterns  45:41  
Yeah, very nice. But I'd like to get back to I'm glad you can travel again. So now when you talk to your customers, or your your prospects, and you say this is going to be very expensive, and this is going to take a long time, we can't do a two hour session, and put a dog and pony show and cure. So now I'm going to ask you a question, though. Is there a quick something that one of our listeners, who's in sales can take with them? Or is that just forget about that?

Unknown Speaker  46:09  
Most salesmen are order takers, they just refuse to acknowledge it. And most sales people, therefore, if they're an order taker, tend to talk themselves out of orders than into them, because it's yours to effectively lose. In theory, if someone's decided they want what you have, and you somehow turn them off of it. That's not very good. So this is what I do. I was in the back of a taxi off to have a meeting with the company CEO. And I was rereading the email that he sent me. And as I was reading it, I got this gut feeling. And my gut said, I think he's, I think he's already decided to work. I don't know why it's just the way this is done. So I had to change my game plan. So I get in front of the CEO. And I said, Can I ask you a question before we started? It's a really weird question. I guess no, no, I asked you. And I said, Are you sure? Because whatever you answer is gonna dictate how I behave for the rest of this meeting, I guess, go for it. And I said, so my question is this, have you already decided you want to work with me? And the purpose of this meeting is to figure out what that would look like? Or do you need to be convinced by the end of this meeting that I'm someone you should invest in? And he looked at me, he goes, it's a it's a good question. I said, I know. I need a good answer. And then he being powerplay, he turned to me and he did the typical power move. He was well, let me put it this way, Benjamin, this is yours to lose. And I said, Oh, I like that tough guy. And I gave him a stroke. And I said, Okay, well, can I just say this a response to that. I said, if we do work together, the first thing I'll teach you is you can't lose something you never actually had. So what are you telling me? Is Yes, yes, actually, I have yet we are going to work with you. So the rest of the meeting is taking an order. Now you can do that on a kayak. Can I ask you a question? Have you ever decided you want to buy a car? And the purpose of today is to figure out which car it is to leave with? Or do you need to be convinced that investing in a new car is what you need to be doing right now? Which are you? And people will tell you? Now, I want to leave with a car today. Right? Let's see if we can find one for you. There's a good chance we won't because we just had a big sale all the good stuffs gone? No, no, no, you can't say no, no, no, don't worry. And then you make out that year, and you just keep building it out? We don't know. So yeah. And if you and I've used that now about a dozen times, and only use it when I feel it. Every time I've got the answer I wanted and the answer has always been No, we've decided. So this is the sales meeting, I'm here to take an order. Right easy.

Jeff Sterns  48:35  
Well, what I keep noticing with you, I mean, I I'm writing down notes, I don't know if you notice I'm leaning over while you're talking. But my I got a legal pad full here, because I'm going to use it because it my day to day job is I'm selling so I'm really in gratitude, to get to talk to you. But what I also noticed with you is who you are, and your delivery. And I'm assuming that this must be in your training must be in your training, because I've had people say to me, and I've trained many, many, many people over 20 years. And well, Jeff, you can do that. But I can't do that. And that's always frustrating to me because none of this stuff was natural to me. In the beginning, everything was the result of me having a good mentor or copying someone that didn't know they were my mentor. I was just watching them and copying or reading books or whatever. None of it was natural. None of it was comfortable. None of it was well you just have this natural talent. It was all learned. It was all learned. And then, like you said, when we're making the dial. Many of us are saying please don't answer please don't answer. And sometimes, and you know, here I am a veteran 2017 For God's sake. I'm battle tested 27 years in car dealerships, and now nine years selling to car dealers. I mean, Could anyone be more scarred up but there are times times when there's someone I need to call for something, or my owner actually recently wanted me to approach another company about a certain partnership, but we've had difficulty with them before and I had that moment of having needing to get ready, needing to get ready for, but I all I have to do is have that conversation with myself like, what's the worst that can happen? They maybe they can come through the phone and kill me, you know? Or, or hang up on me. I mean, that's really about it, and then you just do it. But I love that you are I'm gonna say smiling, and it may not be an outright smile. But you're, I think that you're choosing your state. Am I am I right? Like you're you're working on your state a lot, not just the word.

Unknown Speaker  50:44  
I'm a chameleon. I when I get in front of a prospect, I give them the personality they need to feel comfortable with. So this is why when a salesman says you could do that, but I can't even technically the answer is right. No, you can't. Because you your personality is wrong. But you can create a persona and learn how to act like a different type of person. And once you learn how to do that, when you're in front of a CEO, you got to behave a different way to being in front of a finance director, CEO doesn't care about the by newsha, he's blue sky big picture, let's get a move on the finance directors, data, facts, figures stat process, you can't sell to them, a guy and a Hawaiian shirt won't sell to a guy on a pinstripe suit. But if the Garner Hawaiian shirt puts on a pinstripe suit, and tones down, and as less chatter, and as more detailed focus, the other guy will probably buy from him. So you've got to give your prospect the personality they need, not who you are. And this is why I tell me, we can't be you on a sales meeting, because you will only meet your personality 20% of the time. This is why most salesmen say well, people buy because of me. No, they only remember the times that people like them bought from them. They forget the 80% of times people thought they were a deck.

Jeff Sterns  51:56  
That's right. And we we all do that. We and it's funny, because you got to Benjamin, I believe that you've got to take credit for everything. So we all have these times that were that we remember and talk about and for me, I hope it's daily or certainly more than once a week where I don't think anyone else but me would have gotten that deal. Well, and obviously that's not true. Because if I wasn't alive, people would still be buying things in the world. But I sometimes feel like man Oh, man, I really had an impact on making that deal. But if I don't take accountability for or responsibility for that I had something to do with the 80% that don't buy from me

Unknown Speaker  52:34  
that don't take all the glory when they weren't. But when they lose, it wasn't their fault. It was timing. It was the economy. It was the election. It was COVID it's the competitors it was now What did you do wrong? Nothing. I did what I always do, I just thought I just don't get it this time.

Jeff Sterns  52:47  
It's always our fault when we get the deal. And it's not our fault. Okay.

Unknown Speaker  52:52  
To mention saying to a lawyer, why do you wouldn't trial so that was my winning personality? No, seriously? No, yeah, response winning person. Okay, I'm not gonna hire you. You go to the other guy. Why do you even try? Why? Cuz I know exactly what question to ask when to ask it when to challenge when not when to look at a jury when to raise which I got a whole routine baby. And I've done it so many times. I know how it works. Okay, I'll hire you. Because you know what you're doing. It's not luck.

Jeff Sterns  53:15  
So you've put a lot of this stuff. Obviously it obviously in your habits, you know, obviously, so talking to you, you know, I'm trying to pull you into conversation, because so much of this is push a button on you and hit play for the stuff that you probably say in your sales meetings, and seminars very, very well practice. So what about a bad habit that you know, you have that you're having a hard time? shaking? What bad habit? You know, you need to stop doing it. But you just can't? Yeah, what

Unknown Speaker  53:45  
do I need to stop doing? Oh, that's a good one. I should have asked myself this one before it came on the show. Well, for

Jeff Sterns  53:51  
me, I mean, here I'll, I'm going to answer. And by the way, this is not rehearsed. It's just as we're talking so that you're I've noticed that so much as in your cell memory. You know what you talk about, that I started thinking there's got to be some habits. So then as you're thinking about it, I'm thinking about it. So I'm the deals I don't make much more often on phone than in retail showroom. I think that I'm believable. And I think that I'm credible. And I think that I'm honest. And I'm think that I have integrity. And I think that I'm a nice guy. And I think that the person already knows that or assumes that about me, and that they're believing everything I'm saying, and then I could overstep the comfort level based on where the other guy is, when I lose a deal. Very often when I look back, it's because I didn't allow the other person enough time to know me or give myself an opportunity to get known. But it's a bad habit. But I also am happy about that with myself. Because you know, like, it ain't bragging if it's true. I mean, just when I'm analyzing myself, it's because I believe that I'm honest, and I believe that I'm trying to help them out for the best solution. And I don't do anything with a contract. So people stay with us for years. And it doesn't do me any good to stuff anyone and anything that they're gonna leave me five minutes later over. So even if I was a scoundrel, there's no motivation for that. But sometimes I forget that I'm not known to the other person.

Unknown Speaker  55:21  
Now, it's good. I'm glad you said, because I've got what I do. Yeah, you've

Jeff Sterns  55:26  
I bought you a minute. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  55:27  
good. That was good. And I understand what you said. So by would be actually would go back to my original problem, which I've got a lot better at fix having fixed, but it is still a constant challenge for me. And that is I lack nurturing. I'm a very blunt sort of put now it works most of the time in a lot of people who come to me now expect a certain character. But I sometimes I know that if I've lost a deal, if I look back at it, it's not because of anything I've done. It's the way I've said it. And I've looked back and I thought it now I'm thinking of it, it was when I asked that question in that way. That's I think that's the moment I lost them. And so it is a lack of nurturing, and it's something we're all guilty of as sales people. So when I first started selling, I would actually say to people at the beginning, I said, I'll be upfront with you. I say I tend to ask a lot of questions, but I tend to do it in a way that makes people annoyed. I said, so can you help me? If I ask a question that annoys you rather than sit there? and Sue, can you just tell me and I'll apologize. And what would happen is first of all, most indies would say don't worry about it, Benjamin, just just just do what you have to. But it gave me a safety net to practice nurturing. But if I slipped the police, it didn't blow up. I've stopped doing that. And I think on occasions on deals that I should have won, but didn't it's probably because I've lacked the nurturing and made them feel. I just think this guy's a little too harsh on confrontation. I don't want to be like him. Yes, yes, that would be fair. So yeah, I've still got like, it's I've never got to be a Zen master at this. I'm always on my way there. But I'll only be better. That's a good thing I like about what I do is because I will be better this time next year than I am now. that's a that's a career. Most sales people. As you know, from your experience, that no 510 15 years experience, I've just had the same year 510 or 15 times over?

Jeff Sterns  57:22  
Well, Benjamin, it's funny that you say that. And I want to look all respect to salespeople, I respect salespeople. No doubt about it, to me, that's the highest title you can have on a business card is salesperson. But a thing that concerns me or makes me feel bad when certain sales people experience this is you know that you'll be better next year. I hope I can say that about myself. I'm conscious of it. So I hope I'm improving. And my numbers tend to get better year over year. And the situations that are that I run into that used to be sticky are now not sticky as often. But I think that the brunt of sales, people that don't want to hone their craft and talk to someone like you like, I'm not like a terrible salesperson, but I'm still seeking someone out like you, that's how I found you. But they tend to if they don't have 15 years experience or 10 years experience, they have one year experience 10 times or they have one year experience 15 times.

Unknown Speaker  58:26  
And it goes back to the fundamental reason of how people got into sales. 90% of people in sales are there by default, not designed. This was never the plan. And the problem is because they deep down, don't want to be there. Why would you actually try to get really good? It's you know, it's like saying Why do you want to be a professional golfer? It's I don't, so why do you want the professional circuit? I fell into it and I don't know how to get out?

Jeff Sterns  58:55  
Well, it right. It's quite literally a stopover job that can sometimes consume their whole life or certainly decades. I'm fortunate that I wanted to go into sales and aggravated my dad because he didn't want me to but you know, I loved it. So Benjamin What about something that nobody knows about you?

Unknown Speaker  59:14  
That nobody knows about? Me? I suppose a lot of people would know this. I am. I'm a mini theologian. I love theology. And it's it's it's it's not something you can really talk about with a lot of people because it's quite hard to understand it can be quite so I'm all into understanding the difference between Catholicism and Protestantism eschatology, which is a study of in times hermeneutics, and trying to understand how ancient biblical scripts are put together. So that's that's something I do on the side and it's something I enjoy, and I do that but it's not something I've ever talked about. It's not something I ever because it's just a very I find it fascinating and again, because it's all language and everything, language and interpretation and structure. That's why I was attracted to law, language structured sales is language structure. So there's this theme, I guess that runs through. So by nature, I've got a lot of see in me, I shouldn't be this as gregarious, outgoing, because I qualified as a lawyer. They're quite detailed people. So I have that part of my brain, but it's kept sort of in the background, because what about selling that guy will get in the way, cuz that guy will want to talk too much about detail. So he keeps him in the back, but he comes out in my private life. Yeah,

Jeff Sterns  1:00:30  
I can I and I appreciate that answer. That's, that's a great answer. And it's nice to for me, and I hope for our audience. And I'm, I forgot, like, until I just said that, that we're recording this and it's for an audience. It's nice to know you more than the selling machine. There's more to you. And you're, you know, you're a good guy.

Unknown Speaker  1:00:50  
And this is another thing that people again, again, I I've spent, I spent so much time of my life talking to people, I'm in front of audiences, I'm delivering seminars, I'm doing training sessions, I'm recording videos, I'm always once that camera shuts off, I'm an incredibly reserved, quiet, sit at home because I just get sick of people. And I think some people forget that when you're out there all the time. People say your wife and let's be so great living with him. You know, it's, he's, he's different when he's out doing his thing, because when I come home, I hate having people over. I hate all of that, because it's the one place I can go. But I can escape having to talk

Jeff Sterns  1:01:29  
your sanctuary you want st you've, you've been performing. And you know, I'm on the phone all day. And I love being on the phone, and I love my customers. But I'll get 10 people that say Call me after work. And I don't want to call anybody. Yeah, because when I'm done on the phone, like I don't want to be on the phone, especially if I'm home and around my family. What about something that you'd want us to know about you?

Unknown Speaker  1:01:52  
Well, I'll tell you what I'd want you to know seeing as this is an American audience. I need to do more work in America. What do you drive? Well, it's a it's a it's a it's a sad Navara. But I was literally just showing my daughter seen a really cool, I think it's C for teknor. And it looks like a tank. And we were just looking at that and I said Should we get there? I got to figure out how much it weighs because there are certain weight limits on the car park facilities but yeah, but now so yeah, but I also to add a high Lux, they're like indestructible In fact, find a war spot in the world and spot the terrorists they're always on a high Lux.

Jeff Sterns  1:02:30  
Now we're going to I'm going to look that up. Benjamin I'm grateful honestly been an absolute treat. I appreciate the time you took out of your very busy schedule to give to me I contacted you out of the blue as a literal fan. And you were so nice to say sure let's set a time and we did. Well happy to happy to help.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:53  
This has been Jeff Sterns connected through cars.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Benjamin Dennehy

THE UK's MOST HATED SALES TRAINER

Benjamin Dennehy is an engaging sales speaker, Interim sales director and sales trainer who will explain that the barriers cemented within your selling process ARE your parents’ fault!

Dennehy brings an antipodean brutality and charm to the sales experience many have never encountered before. His ‘no holds barred’ presentation will educate, inspire, motivate and help your sales people understand why they struggle with many of their daily sales frustrations.